this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2025
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I may be an optimist in some ways, but I honestly expect civilization will persist through "all this". Though of course, that isn't really much comfort considering that doesn't mean that it won't absolutely suck for the people within it all.
Depends on how you define civilization.
And how you define “all this”
*gestures at genitals*
Hey, the NCR came after the Great War, right?
Although I hope that's not the bar we're shooting for.
I'd put down a bet that Iceland is gonna be okay.
That makes them suspicious if you ask me.
The great thing now is that we are currently ending the world, so there won't be anywhere for that civilization to be.
Dont say space.²
If you want a future, kill your masters.
If you want to kill yourself and everyone else, get yourself some weed and eggs Benedict, and just keep doing what you're doing¹.
¹assuming you're not spectacularly cool. If you're spectacularly cool a change in behavior may be required.
²Nobody who says that has ever allowed a serious expert into the same room as them. It may not be theoretically possible, we certainly aren't within a century of unsupported space settlement. We haven't even sent a person out of orbit yet.
Agree with your sentiment internet friend, but might want to drop that last sentence. We, uh, did go to the moon, right? Right?
Moon orbits what? Doesn't count as leaving. Might be technically out, but kind of only supports my point.
Also I don't think we still have capacity to do that as a species, but am not sure where the Chinese space program is focused on so can't say for sure.
Ok then we have different definitions of "orbit" and "leaving."
I'm saying it might technically be outside earth's orbit, but it is orbiting earth pretty close. So maybe technically but having to reach for a 'technically' supports my point.
And also I dont think we could get a person to the moon and back right now.
Probably could not get a person to the moon and back, alive. Agree.
Civilization is doing pretty well outside the US. If the US disappeared tomorrow, the rest of the world would do significantly better. I don't know how the world will deal with climate change, but without the US it would be easier to make progress. The tech firms blowing up the AI bubble, and invading our privacy are nearly all American. A lot of the private equity firms destroying the world are also American. If the US could hurry up and finish collapsing, the rest of the world's civilization could just move on.
I put a lot of US's problems as interfence from Russia and China to empower the far-right so that Russia has a customer base for oil, and China can race ahead in the green markets.
I think a world without the US would just mean that Europe and South America are targeted in the same way
I think the ultimate cause for most of the world's problems is Russia and its decrepit fascism.
I think also people forget how good the US was in being a stable pillar of free and open collaboration in the sciences worldwide.
What is happening now is a major shift in that stability
I think you're overestimating the influence of Russia and China and underestimating the dysfunction in the US.
The dysfunction in the US has always existed, but it never spilled over into politics quite to this degree.
Russia was found to be sponsoring the NRA, and the rise of evangelicals as a voting group seems to be a co-ordinated world-wide phenomenon.
Whilst one can blame the techbros and robber barons for exacerbating this, I'd argue that those same elites thrived more under stable economic growth than an unstable one
Sure. But, look at the media environment. From the founding of the US to the invention of radio, there were newspapers. Sure, there was a strong element of yellow journalism, but to print a newspaper you still needed a printing press so it wasn't a free-for-all. Then with radio, and then TV in the 50s there were only a handful of sources of information for everybody to follow. It's only really since the 2010s that the media environment has been a free-for-all with anybody able to put up their own podcast, or put up videos on YouTube, or have their own blog, or post on Twitter, or whatever.
Politicians used to be able to do backroom deals. Those used to get a bad name, but to a certain extent it was a good thing, because at least they were dealing, instead of causing things to come to a deadlock. Now, if anybody dares to talk to someone on "the other team", they get raked over the coals.
Sure, they spent some money, and had some success. But, they hardly needed to push. The NRA's goals were already aligned with Russia's. The NRA has over 5 million members, and they were hardly upset with the direction Russia was pushing.
Not to me. There doesn't seem to be much coordination there. There are just grifters seeing an opportunity.
It's hardly the first time that an elite and powerful group tried to use a movement or a politician to further their interests and then found out that they couldn't control what they'd unleashed.
You've got some interesting perspectives, thanks for this