90
Estonia is digging a 40 km trench to stop Russian tanks — and 600 bunkers are next
(euromaidanpress.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
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Correct me if I'm wrong but you've just admitted you were wrong.
No when people say tank they mean MBT, if you drive a Bradley and call it a tank Abraham's crews will straight up laugh at you. The phrase you used doesn't matter, the question is will that actually stop a tank. My response was no but it will slow them, your answer was "Nuh uh!". Now you've proved visually by yourself that you are wrong and probably shouldn't have "uhm actually" your way into the conversation.
My god, you've broken my secret code.
...
Or uh... no wait. No, you're still wrong. Sorta. It's complicated. Here:
I've quite exhaustively shown that yes, at some speeds a T-72 would impact the berm without rotating the turret. I'm not... I literally gave you diagrams dude, I don't think I could be more explicit about how this works out. If they don't slow down this won't be the case. They will clear it without having to rotate the turret. They also, as you've claimed, will not have to turn the turret "away from the berm". I couldn't be more clear than this without a lego set and a cattle prod. I was provisionally wrong about the turret, unless you take it in the context of my earlier thing about not slowing down, where I would be correct.
But I don't really care enough, so have the win about the turret. It's my little gift to you.
The issue is more complicated than you present it, and I did my best to clarify that. Also, yes, I already acknowledged how the misclassification of things as MBTs is the source of popular Tanker drinking games. It's common enough there's a billion articles like this out there, clarifying things. It's not a phantom phenomenon, are you really trying to turn that into the issue to litigate while glossing over the slow-down-an-attack aspects now?
If you're dumb enough not to know the distinction yet you're driving a bradley, they're going to be laughing at you for a whole host of other things regardless. like not being able to tie your own shoes or spell your own name. The distinctions really get driven into you as part of an armored group.
So we're done, you admit you're wrong and also that you're just being tedious. Neat.
Ego much? Also that ignores the fact that was the entire argument but sure get snippy about it bud.
Wait, when did it become about just the one issue you brought up? Are you really trying to leverage a single small concession into an ideological victory over an entire discussion, but playing it off like nobody could notice that? When'd I say I was being tedious, again?
It's literally the point.
Would a tank have to stop? We both agree no.
Would it slow down a tank? We both agree yes unless you're implying they not only would throw themselves at max speed across a scarp counter scarp and embankment and that somehow would not slow down the tank.
We just don't agree on your looney toons tactics which your own evidentiary video doesn't even support.
I explained the context of the video, though - and my whole point has been "but why would they slow down". Its not because of the trench, we've both accepted the evidence that it's actively detrimental to them to do that. You keep saying they would slow, but not establishing a reason why they'd ever do that, instead lashing out at me.
I've demonstrated to both our satisfactions that this little ditch isn't a notable obstacle to a modern AFV, and is only a minor one to the lowest-profile and longest-snooted MBT I know of (There's no risk of booping the berm with an Abrams or Challenger 2, for example. They're both too tall and the barrel does not extend to the same comical distance). I've even laid out why this style of ditch is an important facet of a defense in depth strategy (easy for AFVs to cross, difficult for support, separates the two very nicely esp. if the tanks are moving at speed to avoid making targets of themselves).
So... what's the issue? Is it just that I've expressed my position, that you're intelligent but very unfamiliar with the topic? I really doubt that one, it seems objectionably petty even to me, but I am curious about what your motivation is here.
^edit:^ ^clarity^
^edit_2:^ ^added^ ^edit^ ^disclaimer^
Because hitting a wall at 50 kph in a armored can is a stupid* fucking idea unless you're currently being shot at, what any force would do is cross once carefully and push entering in and then they can just drive across.
I'm not sure where or why you have these cartoonish visions of how tanks go about things but it's absurd and you've provided exactly nothing to say that anyone would do this or that it's at all standard practice to just hurl yourselves barrel first into walls.
You agree! Stop arguing to argue guy.
(Sorry slightly pressed for time this comment, I usually try to avoid quote-reliant responses)
Getting attached to armored regiments gives you a weird degree of insight as to how they do things, I'll happily confess to that one.
You're not quite understanding my argument, I fear. You can see in the vid I posted before that a tank will happily just shove it's way through a berm of loose-packed dirt like this, it's not like I'm trying to present that as a tank driving full on at a wall. I've also never presented that a tank would intentionally foul it's barrel instead adjusting the gun lay to deflect damage (hell, turrets even have a system in place to allow free rotation in the event of strong impacts just to prevent damage to the barrel/sights/etc) because that's the entire basis of my "just elevate over it" point from earlier. The berm in the OP is only a barrier in that a vehicle might get bogged down in it, a small mound of dirt isn't going to stop anything especially not a MBT.
No, what? Rapid thrusts through enemy defenses is fundamental to maneuver warfare - it was the basis of Blitzkrieg, it's the basis of modern Disorganization in Depth, it was a cornerstone of Ukraine's counter-offensive. It's what any armored force would do - exploitation through rapid maneuver, consolidation by following forces.
Here, don't believe me? 1-10. "While Army forces consolidate gains throughout an operation, consolidating gains become the focus of operations after large-scale combat operations have concluded". It's very literally textbook maneuver warfare - it's so basic it's publicly available on the US Army website.
Isn't the point of having a bunker every 60 meters that you'll have lots of locations to shoot at people trying to cross the tank barrier? That's kinda fundamental to the premise here.
But... no, I don't?
Ya huh then you should know you're taking faff but more likely your just lying.
I understand your argument, I'm saying you're being obtuse and egomaniacal.
You agree go away already.
(Taking faff is one of the cutest aphorism's I've run across, thank you for that)
Anyways, you've repeatedly demonstrated a deeply fundamental lack of familiarity with the topic being discussed here. And you asserting that I agree with you, despite repeatedly explaining the nuance of my position and detailing how we disagree, is a pretty transparent attempt to establish a victory condition that has nothing to do with the content of your argument and everything to do with the submission of your opponent ~~which, listen, usually I'm all for that, but man when you're just trying to demand it like this it's a real turn off.~~
It's even wildly off topic - you still have done nothing to actually establish that your position is founded on evidence, you're just asserting that you're correct and ignoring the mounting evidence for my own position. Hell, at this point you've already agreed that there's no reason for them to slow down. I think you're agreeing with my point (not that I'm going to try and strong-arm you into that one)
So, seriously, why would they slow down when assaulting a pre-prepared defensive position? Ordinarily, that's what we'd call suicide.
Neat.
Again, you've agreed with me multiple times at this point, your just upset. It's cool dude, move on.
If you're so certain in your victory, why not simply accept it and move on yourself? Why is my ascension to your proposed scenario so important here? Why attack me, instead of discuss the merit of the arguments I'm so eager to talk about?