this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2025
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[–] Chana@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The PRC's economic model is not inherently neoliberal. What is this nonsense?

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

OP thinks neoliberalism is when free trade lol.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Even then China has substantial import controls and protectionist measures. For example, The Great Firewall is mostly a protectionist measure for domestic tech development.

There are neoliberals struggling for neoliberal policy in the PRC government and liberal policies for many industries, but the way it treats capital is usually more akin to a classic econ, Keynesian, and of course Marxist logic.

It may br faur to assume OP is speaking more about its international economic relations, where imperialist peers have exported neoliberal policy via something like the IMF. They .ake reference to the IMF. The usual aspects of neoliberalism in that context are to tie strings to loans for imperialized countries to convert their economies into (dependemcy) profit maximizers for imperialists. Cut their labor protections, abolish domestic food production via multiple means including removing protectionist barriers, leading to greater proletarianization for there to be workers for the imperialist-owned factories, cannibalization of social programs and many functions of the state that threaten this regime or remove opportunities for profit.

But even then China is at best somewhat complacent with other countries' neoliberalism. They do not attach those strings and their direct investments tend to not involve net exploitation (vs. their domestic workforce). This is a debated point among Marxist nerds but I find the analyses in line with what I've described more convincing and rigorous.

I think the most salient criticism is that China's strategy of economic integration is a double-edged sword. While the imperialists are stuck with the choice between attacking China and having unstable economies and profits, China is stuck trying to figure out what to do with their export-driven productive economy if they ever tried to decouple.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The term you’re looking for is imperialism, or financial imperialism, not neoliberalism. There are many Global South countries today that are obviously not imperialist and yet have their economic model fully adhere their to the neoliberal framework.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

I mostly agree. I used both terms in their own context, while they're also related, as imperialism frequently uses the imposition of neoliberalism to achieve its ends. If we ask how China could be fundamentally neoliberal we quickly exhaust the question domestically, so we'd need to look at how it could be neoliberal in a farther-reaching sense in that it imposes neoliberalism on other countries or strictly relies on an expansion of neoliberalism elsewhere in order to function.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Just explained to another user but here you go:

Definitionally, China’s economy fits fully into the neoliberal framework and adheres closely to the IMF prescription (balancing the budget, export-led growth, privatization etc.). Please don’t say just because China has industrial policy that it is not neoliberal. Many countries, including Japan and South Korea, have industrial policies and still fit fully into the neoliberal framework.

From an academic standpoint, economics departments across Chinese academia are already dominated by Western neoclassical and Austrian school economists who studied in Western universities. You want to find Marxist economists? They’ve all been banished to the humanities and social sciences departments decades ago.

From a historical standpoint, China’s reform and opening up model was designed by the Chicago school and Milton Friedman was even invited twice to China to educate Chinese policymakers. Shanghai’s financial sector was designed by the Chicago school lol.

Perhaps the most prominent economist and policy advisor in China today, Justin Lin Yifu, who pioneered the New Structural Economics that defined the Chinese economic model for the past 30 years, was the first ever Chinese PhD graduate from the Chicago school of economics and the protege of Theodore Schultz himself, the co-founder of Chicago school of neoclassical economics together with Milton Friedman.

Again, you are confusing a country having industrial policy and some level of capital control, which I remind you, that exist in many countries in the world today, as being not neoliberal.

Many people don’t even understand how the Chinese economy works and its history think they know China better than myself lol, and I don’t even claim to be an expert.

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

Definitionally, China’s economy fits fully into the neoliberal framework and adheres closely to the IMF prescription (balancing the budget, export-led growth, privatization etc.).

The IMF neoliberal framework is one of balancing budgets through austerity (etc). Neoliberalism is definitionally destructive to state-owned capital - as you mention, privatization. Generally speaking, it refocuses the profit drivers to finance through cannibalization of productive capital. While one could've argued for a worrying trajectory towards this in China in 1999, today the trend and actuality is opposite to this, with a growing state, growing SOEs, deprivatization, growing infrastructure, direct confrontations with an already-suppressed financial capital sector, and a steadily increasing domestic production for domestic consumption.

It is certainly true that China ticks some boxes (e.g. allowing its own exploitation, export-driven economy), but these are not sufficient to be neoliberal.

From an academic standpoint, economics departments across Chinese academia are already dominated by Western neoclassical and Austrian school economists who studied in Western universities. You want to find Marxist economists? They’ve all been banished to the humanities and social sciences departments decades ago.

Oh yes there is certainly a strong element of this political economic miseducation. It is not quite that dire, as even the Shanghai School integrates Marxist thought, and not just for show. Similarly, nerds like Liu Yuanchun and Hu Angang have substantial influence and intersect with the Tsinghua crowd. China's governance has finance sector veterans following the plans of Marxist SOE advocates. These things get mixed together. Much of the strength of the anti-finance (or at least finance-critical) crowd focuses on the anarchy of production when finance capital becomes too strong, for example. Attempts to reign in real estate highlighted these struggles and with, appropriately, mixed bag outcomes.

From a historical standpoint, China’s reform and opening up model was designed by the Chicago school and Milton Friedman was even invited twice to China to educate Chinese policymakers. Shanghai’s financial sector was designed by the Chicago school lol.

Reform and Opening Up absolutely drew from neoliberal schools of thought, openly and intentionally, but also balanced by ML critique and retaining a very different political economic system than the Chicago Boys implemented on, say, Chile via Pinochet.

I do also want to note, however, that much of this is not in real service of whether China's economy is fundamentally neoliberal. It could basically all be true in fact and intent while China's actual economic function is not neoliberal.

Perhaps the most prominent economist and policy advisor in China today, Justin Lin Yifu [...]

He headed the World Bank, too! Very enmeshed in the explicitly political structures of global capital. But again this just reads as an attempt at association but without strong thesis. And NSE, while easy to criticize, is a departure from neoliberal economics in quite a few ways, particularly when it comes to the role of the state and private capital.

Again, you are confusing a country having industrial policy and some level of capital control, which I remind you, that exist in many countries in the world today, as being not neoliberal.

I don't believe I've said or implied either of those things. In fact, the comment you replied to was very very short and just doubted China being neoliberal. Are you thinking of a different person or comment?

Many people don’t even understand how the Chinese economy works and its history think they know China better than myself lol, and I don’t even claim to be an expert.

I'm not sure I'd make a blanket statement that I simply understand a given country's economy. I can often identify salient aspects.