this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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"Systematic reviews of controlled clinical studies of treatments used by chiropractors have found no evidence that chiropractic manipulation is effective, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.[8] A 2011 critical evaluation of 45 systematic reviews concluded that the data included in the study "fail[ed] to demonstrate convincingly that spinal manipulation is an effective intervention for any condition."[10] Spinal manipulation may be cost-effective for sub-acute or chronic low back pain, but the results for acute low back pain were insufficient.[11] No compelling evidence exists to indicate that maintenance chiropractic care adequately prevents symptoms or diseases.[12]"

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[–] yenahmik@lemmy.world 338 points 11 months ago (37 children)

Anything a chiropractor can do that will actually help, a PT can do better. They'll also teach you what exercises to do to prevent needing to see them again.

A chiropractor will just tell you to come to them more often, and take more of your money over time.

[–] Shadywack@lemmy.world 154 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You can save a lot of money by just going to a masseuse instead of a chiropractor. People attribute the positive feeling they get from attention to well being improvements, and pseudoscience practitioners certainly achieve that at a premium price. If it's attention you want, get a massage, otherwise go to a PT and get some real help.

[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 65 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Also I think a massage therapist will tend to be more educated on the muscles and how they work together than a masseuse

[–] Gregorech@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (3 children)

A massage therapist tends not to provide the "extras" that you can get from a strip mall masseuse.

[–] ski11erboi@lemm.ee 17 points 11 months ago (3 children)
[–] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Just make sure they're not a cop first.

[–] deadsenator@lemmy.ca 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That would not be a happy ending to the story.

[–] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Depends on for whom. A good bust makes nearly everybody happy.

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[–] TheFriar@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I don’t care, I’ll come on a cop.

[–] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In some places and depending on the specific details, the punishment for that offense wouldn't include jail time. Instead of a crime, it's just a penile code violation.

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[–] deafboy@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] SacrificedBeans@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Or after the extras.

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[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

My wife, bless her innocent heart, still doesn't get this. She's been to every strip mall, Groupon massage studio in the area and is constantly like "wow, I can't figure out why these $75/hr massages are so hit or miss."

I have tried explaining to her that it's because she doesn't have a penis, but she still doesn't get it.

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[–] KneeTitts@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

do you want happy ending?

yes, heck you know what, lets have a happy middle too.. and a happy beginning.. ok make the whole thing happy please!

[–] Duranie@midwest.social 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As a massage therapist that used to work in education (director of education at a massage school and taught anatomy/pathology) results will vary wildly across the States. The majority of states only started licensing in the last 10-15 years, and of course requirements for licensing and supervision varies. Some schools teach enough anatomy to get their students to pass the tests, then focus their time teaching spa type massage (aromatherapy, wraps, hot stones, etc.) or energy work. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it serves a different purpose.

There are definitely schools that exist that focus more on therapeutic/rehabilitative work, but even then the challenge is finding a therapist with an up to date approach who doesn't buy the old school "no pain no gain" who kicks the shit out of you. Massage shouldn't hurt. But if your find the right therapist for you, they're worth their weight in gold.

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[–] DrMango@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Just FYI, the generally preferred term these days is "massage therapist." Last I heard "masseuse" and "masseur" (the masculine version) have an implicit sexual connotation that "massage therapist" does not. Unless that's what you were recommending instead of chiropractic, in which case carry on!

[–] Moneo@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

Also it has a more professional connotation. RMTs go to school and work hard to be qualified and capable of their jobs.

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[–] rdyoung@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This. I'm seriously considering finding the money for an at home sauna. Get my muscles nice and warm and relaxed and then stretch the shit out of them.

[–] logi@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (3 children)

then stretch the shit out of them.

Just be careful. There is such a thing as over stretching. I fucked up my knees stretching after a hot yoga session and could barely walk for a couple of years.

Everything in moderation.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

One of the worst overstretches I did was in a pool. With my body weight canceled out I could get into deeper stretches, like by putting my leg up on the edge of the pool. Afterwards I realized I'd overdone it. lol

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[–] KneeTitts@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

I would also point out that any pro quackocracker post you see here is the one time they might have helped someone just out of random chance, those people are loud and tell everyone how great their quackocracker is. Its simple confirmation bias, they have a sample size of one, themselves, this is not how data works.

[–] Dvixen@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

I go to a sports physiotherapy group. Much better results when the goal is to help me recover so I don't need to come to them.

[–] JaymesRS@literature.cafe 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You can also search out a GP that is a DO Instead of an MD in the US.

They still learn osteopathic manipulation, which is a broader form of manipulation not limited to the spine that helps with stretching-type exercises. But they are certified (often with the same board exams even) and licensed on par with MDs. Many clinics have DOs among their providers.

[–] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Important caveat of "in the US". In most countries, osteopaths are basically the same as chiropractors. In the US, DO licensing is the same as MD licensing, so they do have to learn real science and medicine in addition to the fake science and medicine of osteopathy. Personally, I wouldn't aim for a DO as my Dr., but if I already had one that I liked, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Osteopathic schools are easier to get into than medical schools, cause we have more people that want to get their MD than we have schools to teach them, so plenty of those people become DO's.

[–] Alue42@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

This is incorrect. You are likely confused due to the fact that the names of the fields are similar.

Osteopathy /=/ osteopathic

I'll discuss the fields as the are in the US, as I am not aware of how they are in other countries.

  • Chiropractors go through their own degree programs through their own colleges.
  • Osteopaths are homeopathic practitioners (not doctors, and they refer to their customers as clients, they are legally not allowed to refer to them as patients) and are alternative medicine practicioners.
  • MDs receive a medical degree and are doctors.
  • DOs receive a medical degree (an MD) as well as an additional 300+ hours of osteopathic study through their medical school to receive a second medical degree certification - this is NOT the same as the homeopathic study, this is the study of the bones, joints, nerves, and how they all work together as a whole.
[–] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

The AOA only recently (2010) decided to recommend that DO's no longer be called osteopaths. As they still practice and teach osteopathic manipulation, it's not inaccurate to still refer to them as osteopaths. When they abandon that pseudoscience and turn completely to evidence based medicine, I'll refer to them as DO's. Right now, all DO's are osteopaths, but not all osteopaths are DO's.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It doesn't have to do with homeopathy. Osteopathy is it's own pseudoscience alternative medicine and it is what they're trained as a side to their medical training. They do act like this training somehow makes them more holistic than MDs, but that's been proven to be largely false and they generally do not use that osteopathic manipulation in their practice.

Some non-doctor osteopaths might use homeopathy, but the basic theory of what osteopathy is remains pseudoscience even when it's done by DOs.

Osteopathy = Osteopathic.

[–] Alue42@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Thank you, I didn't realize that homeopathy was not general term - I thought it was a generalized term for alternative medicine that wasn't eastern medicine, but I was wrong.

Anyway, I do still have some things to clear up for you.

You still seem to think that DOs are spending their 300+ additional hours after the MD learning the pseudoscience, which isn't the case. Those hours are spent with neurologists, orthopedics, physical therapists, and other fellowships and residencies only provided by the MEDICAL SCHOOL - which would absolutely not allow any pseudoscience within their walls. Yes, they might do very minor manipulation in their practices, but it's what's learned through neurologists, physical therapists, or orthopedists, etc. (in addition to their MD residenciea just like the MDs in family practice, OB, surgery, dermatology, oncology, etc). The goal of a DO is to treat a patient as the sum of their parts rather than symptomatically.

Patient-first rather than symptom-first. (DO vs MD)

Osteopathic rather than allopathic. (DO vs MD)

-If I go to an MD with an earache, I'll have my ear checked out and maybe find nothing wrong but walk out with Prednisone to see if it helps. Prednisone does nothing but make me gain water weight.
-If I go to a DO with an earache, I'll have my ear checked out and maybe find nothing wrong, but he might think since there was nothing obvious that maybe there's a nerve pinched near the top of my neck so he'll have me stand to look at my posture and notice that I'm standing awkwardly with my hips not level, checks out my ankles and realizes I've started to lean in on one of my ankles and writes an Rx for a custom insole and exercises to strengthen my ankle. The issue with the ankle was causing my hips to lean, which caused my back to curve the other way to compensate, which pinched a nerve in my neck, which caused an earache. Wear the insole while strengthening the ankle, earache goes away.

(This is a true story of something that happened to me, not an example of every experience with a MD or a DO)

There is nothing precluding and MD from also searching for the underlying cause, but allopathic medicine looks to treat symptoms.

Osteopathy is 100% the movement of muscles and bones and not taught in medical school.

Osteopathy /=/ osteopathic

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[–] JaymesRS@literature.cafe 4 points 11 months ago

That’s why I specifically said in the US. You have to be careful, though, some DO schools are easier to get into than some MD schools but there are also DO schools that are harder to get into than some MD schools (MD schools in the Caribbean for example) so unless you are being hyper vigilant about which school your GP went to, you’re still just relying on the fact that they all passed the same or equivalent boards anyway.

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[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 2 points 11 months ago

This is a great point. My MiL is a chiropractor (a non-quacky one), and she incorporated a lot of PT into her practice. Additionally, I read a couple years ago that PTs are beginning to incorporate the good things from chiro (whatever they are. I'm not a doctor) into their own practice.

A roundabout way of saying that we learned some things from chiro, but PT was always the future.

[–] CarlCook@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago

In my corner of the world, most CPs are also PTs. Or rather the other way around: they use chiropractic as one of many therapeutic means in their portfolio. I have to say, I very much appreciate this approach, as it relives the initial pain/discomfort but also addresses the underlying problem.

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