this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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Image is of destruction and damage inside Israel, sourced from this article.


Iran and Israel have struck each other many times over the last few days. There has been a general focus on military facilities and headquarters by both sides, though Israel has also struck oil facilities, civilian structures and hospitals, and in return for this, Iran has struck major scientific centers and the Haifa oil facilities.

Israel appears to have three main aims. First, to collapse the Iranian state, either through shock and breakdown by killing enough senior officials, or via some sort of internal military coup. Second, to try and destroy Iranian nuclear sites and underground missile cities, or at least to paralyze them long enough to achieve the first and third goals. And third, to bring the US into a direct conflict with Iran. This is because the US better equipped to fight them than Israel is (though victory would still not be guaranteed depending on what Iran chooses to do).

Iranian nuclear facilities are hidden deep underground (800 meters), far beyond the depth range of even the most powerful bunker busters (~70 meters or so), and built such that the visible ground entrances are horizontally far away in an unknown direction from the actual underground chambers. Only an extremely competent full-scale American bombing force all simultaneously using multiple of the most powerful conventional (perhaps even nuclear) bunker busters could even hypothetically hope to breach them (and we have seen how, in practice, American bunker busters have largely failed to impair or deter Ansarallah). There are several analysts on both sides who have concluded that it is entirely impossible to physically prevent Iran from building nukes.

I fully expect the US to join the war. I believe the current ambiguity is a deliberate invention of the US while they work to move their military assets into position, and as soon as they are ready, the US will start bombing Iran. After that, Iran's leadership must - if they haven't already - harden their hearts, and strike back with no fear, or risk following the path of Libya, Syria, and Iraq, either into either surrender, occupation, or annihilation. Every day where they do not possess a nuke is a day where lives are being lost and cities are being bombed.


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[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 31 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

Here's some analysis I did for the "student" protests 3 years ago

As always it's important to understand the class dynamics involved, the Islamic Republic two strongest bases of support are the rural petite-bourgeoisie/rural landlord class (who are the real social backers of the morality laws) and the urban/semi-urban working class who back the republic for material and national reasons (but who may or may not support the morality laws depending on context and personal religiosity) unlike the rural rentier class, the urban working class make up the bulk of the counterprotests

The protests themselves are made up of educated "middle class" urbanites, students and the chronically unemployed (with only the student urbanites really being dedicated to the protests) while the leadership is subsumed by the westernized diaspora/exiles who ironically have more in common materially with the rural petite-bourgeoisie, even if they disagree on the morality laws

Also I saw someone here claim the morality laws aren't enforced, that's complete nonsense, the Iranian petit-bourgeois Karens absolutely want these laws enforced and they have the money and backing to enforce it

All in all Iran is a land of contrasts

There won't be internal regime change; the working class, landlords, and big capitalists are with the regime, also as others have pointed out it took 15 years of sustained warfare for the Syrian regime to collapse and Assad WAS unpopular with a significant portion of the Syrian working class

Edit: It should also be pointed out the urban "middle class" liberals are unbelievably culturally and socially hostile to urban working class Iranians, to the point of it becoming an underground proto-segregationist issue, as a result the liberal westernized urbanites (where 90% of the traitorous elements reside) can never organize the street muscle required to even pull off a protest that doesn't fizzle out within two weeks

[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 10 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Let's say hypothetically (and I'm not being coy or anything, I have absolutely no idea if this is plausible nor seen suggestions online that it is, it's just a thought experiment) that the Iranian military has some pro-Israel figure at a senior level, or maybe a small cadre of them, just as one possible explanation as to how Israel is able to keep striking Iranian senior officials. Is there a mechanism from either the top-down or bottom-up that would prevent them from doing a palace coup if they were just suddenly like "We're taking control, we want peace with Israel"? Like, would the top/middle/bottom levels of IRGC mobilize on the facility and take them prisoner/kill them, or would they obey an order by those pro-Israel figures to stand down if given it?

Since Prigozhin I've always been a little fascinated by anti-palace-coup mechanisms that states possess, y'know, to the extent that Prigozhin was a serious coup threat.

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 1 points 1 hour ago

the raison detre of the IRGC is to prevent a coup, i dunno whose personnel are the majority/closest to the 'levers of power' but the IRGC are better trained for irregular operations and are organized for rapid mobilization. i'd say it's quite unlikely barring serious failure/complicity within the IRGC.

[–] Chertstone@hexbear.net 10 points 3 hours ago

Also doesnt help that Tehran (their main center) is being bombed.