this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2025
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Image is Israeli interceptors trying and failing to intercept missiles over their cities.


Israel just carried out a widespread bombing of Iran, which has killed a number of senior officials inside Iran (though it seems the leadership is more-or-less intact) as well as a number of civilians. Important facilities have been targeted, but the amount of damage is unknown so far (note that many important Iranian facilities are deep underground, making them both hard to damage but also hard to determine if they are damaged from just satellite imagery, so reports of damage will be he-said-she-said).

It appears the attack took Iran by surprise, given that a residential block was targeted that contained some senior officials - if one saw an attack coming, one would imagine they'd be in bunkers. Nonetheless, like the rest of the Resistance Axis, I suspect that Iran has adapted their military structures to be resistant to decapitation strikes by ensuring that replacement figures are ready to take the place of killed officials.

Iran has delivered a massive missile barrage in response to Israeli aggression, even though Israel is continuing to bomb Iran. Iran is now aware of the location of many important Israeli sites, including secret nuclear sites, due to their recent intelligence haul, giving them a distinct edge.


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[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 59 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (3 children)

So what the fuck did the Israeli government think was going to happen? Whatever the result this is going to be ruinous to both countries, they're just pounding each other.

You can't just eat city blocks being destroyed and continue. Populations get mad, building is easier at peace, soldiers want to help their families etc.

I mean ww2 showed that bombing campaigns don't win wars but they do beggar nations. Are they banking on a martial plan style bailout? The usa is not in the same position economically but I suppose the damage is relatively limited vs Europe.

[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 41 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (3 children)

I'm not saying China definitely will help Iran out in this way (because they still seem to be pretty squeamish about breaking sanctions regimes) but if it does, I personally think China could help out Iran in rebuilding to a greater extent than the US could with Israel

Like, the US has basically given Israel a blank check, absolutely, but money cannot be magically transmuted into new transformer stations and oil refineries and buildings, you have to get actual guys in to make those things and install them, y'know. And China's demonstrated that they're very good at getting things done in that regard.

[–] CleverOleg@hexbear.net 7 points 3 hours ago

One of the useful things I’ve learned from MMT is that if you can actually “make stuff”, then there’s virtually no limit to what you can accomplish if you need to get something (major infrastructure, military buildup, etc) done. If you can’t, then all the money in the world won’t help.

I think the US Congress and Trump would sign off on virtually any amount of money for Israel if it needed to rebuild. While it’s the US that calls the shots in the relationship and it’s Israel that serves the US’ interest and not the other way around, I do think it’s true that Congress specifically is firmly under the Israeli thumb. Half of them are true believers, the other half are too reliant on AIPAC dollars (or at least afraid they will be the next Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman if they cross AIPAC). $500 billion to rebuild Israel? I think I’ll have two chickens!

But that money has nowhere to go. WHO is gonna rebuild Israel? Palestinian workers? US contractors that can’t manage to build a proper little pier in Israel (and burning a mountain of cash in the process)? Will the US give billions to China to rebuild Israel? I mean, China would probably be down for that but I think the US would probably balk. That money will just get grifted away because that’s literally what happens whenever the US tries this sort of thing.

And I think if Israel (and the US) deplete their stocks in attacking Iran, they’re in for a rude awakening when it comes time to restock. I don’t think we’re quite there yet, but the privatization of the US military I think is really gonna come back and haunt Cheney and Rumsfeld. Back to MMT, you need productive capacity you can bring online to churn out what you need fast. That means idle factories at times. But inserting the profit motive into your military, that occasionally idle capacity has to be eliminated in order to increase profits (and it has). So not only does the US military not have the productive capacity to restock fast, it doesn’t have the capacity to build new factories to build productive capacity. Privatization has gutted the military, and there has been be a sweet irony to all of the US’ military failures over the last 25 years that it’s the very same capitalist system that is doing this.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 18 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Who says China isn't also going to help rebuild in Israel? They are heavily invested in the Haifa port which is critical infrastructure, do you think they will just shrug and say "well I guess its risk that comes with the business"? They'll help both sides the only question is would the US actualy allow more Chinese investments in Israel at this point.

The US may try to seize those investments but looking at how China handled the recent HK/Panama disaster they were surprised but not happy.

If we could even imagine Israel cooling down for a few months then the only thing stopping China from further investments in Israel would be US fearmongering.

There will be a lot of strategizing in the future for Israel to consider if welcoming China to play both sides is better than forcing them to pick a side. In the past during Trump 1 it was the US that prevented more investments, not Zionist principled stances against China. If you remember we saw this dynamic earlier during the Ukraine war too when Israel and Russia had surprisingly "good" relations.

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 11 points 5 hours ago

Yeah, china has shown that their calculations are mostly economical, and they're not above taking money/investing in what otherwise could be geopolitical adversaries.

[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 9 points 6 hours ago

The government seems pretty content to focus inward. Most of their foreign actions I'm familiar with seem to be centered around improving trade and thus wealth.

Avoiding becoming enmeshed in conflict seems to be the current pattern anyway.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 39 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

I honestly think Israel expected worse and was planning for an opening salvo of over 500 missiles and thousands dead. I mean that's what we all expected to happen if Israel were to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. It didn't materialize, but the Israelis would have had to assume that there was a high chance of it happening, and still chose war anyways. So I don't think leveling city blocks in Tel Aviv will change much. The military and political establishment chose war with Iran no matter the cost.

[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 8 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

you're the missile buff.

Seems unhinged

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 9 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It's Israel, this whole plan is unhinged.

[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 6 points 4 hours ago

Indeed. Kinda gross watching the entire consent manufacturing machine spin up after this. Framing stuff as Israeli retaliation vs Iranian attacks.

Watch them get away with another pile of bodies while targetting everyone even moderately critical as if they're writing protocols 2: the children of Zion.

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 34 points 9 hours ago

Nation didn't have enough glass so needed their cities converted to it.