Original post: https://bsky.app/profile/ssg.dev/post/3lmuz3nr62k26
Email from Bluesky in the screenshot:
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For those who don't know, Bluesky isn't really federated. The only way to host a non-Bluesky instance required 1TB of storage in July 2024, and 5 TB of storage in Nov 2024. Could be way more than that now.
You basically have to be a company to federate into the ATProto (Bluesky) ecosystem. You can't just "stand up an instance".
Lots of detail: https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/
(I know you've already realized that you were conflating Mastodon with Bluesky, I'm putting this here for others who come along so they can get the facts).
Also DMs always go through Bluesky themselves.
yeah the DM system is something completely exclusive to their official servers and that they just rolled up without caring at all about trying to keep up the pretense of wanting to build something decentralized.
They're planning on migrating to the new MLS group messaging encryption standard, which is built to support federated messaging encryption (more efficient than the current Matrix protocol)
(also, Matrix are also planning on adopting it, and the RCS spec is getting it too)
It's long to take a while though. The standard is very recent and nobody has a complete implementation yet.
That’s not an outlandish amount of storage. You can get more than that for $200.
At the rate it's growing, it's going to get outlandish very quickly.
It's not an outlandish amount, but for instance I have my own VPS where I host a variety of services, and it still has under 1TB storage. Most hobbyists who rent a VPS would have less storage than that.
Why rent? If you have fiber and aren't behind CGNAT you can host from your home
I rent because of government surveillance; I want my server in a different country.
So rent a budget VPS and tunnel your home server through it?
I mean it also means I inherently have an off-site backup, which is important given that my home occasionally gets raided by the police. I'm not worried about data access since I use FDE on everything, but data loss is a real concern.
it keeps constantly growing by terabytes and needs to be fast too though. Means you're going to pay more than most private individuals are able to long-term just for the privilege of running that one component.
That's just if you want a complete copy. You can choose to store only parts of it, and retrieve what's missing from other relay servers when you need it.
seems to be a fairly recent development that isn't really documented much for now (not that running relays and some other components of the network is that well documented in general). Of course doing it that way also doesn't help with how centralized the whole thing is...
It's always been possible with the use of content addressing, it's just that they've been spending most time building out core services and are now focusing on making it cheaper to run.
Yeah, one of my main gripes with them is how much they talk about decentralization and how much it stays as vaporware while they focus on the more pressing issue of the moment.
Yeah anyone who runs a node is laughing at those numbers
My Jellyfin server is 6 times that... And my gaming PC is double that.... Seriously, this person thinks 5TB is a lot? Don't we have SD Cards/Flash Drives this big now? I'd be WAY more concerned about the bandwidth requirements.
Edit: laughing my ass off at the downvotes. Yes, my server has 30TB. Yes my PC has around 12TB. It wasn't expensive or hard. The hard drives in my Jellyfin are NAS drives.... Bunch of people acting like you need quantum computers to run a node lmfao. Storage space is easy. It's the networking and bandwidth part that's hard. So yeah, complaining that 5TB of storage puts it out of reach of the average person when one 12tb NAS drive cost $200? Just bitching. Plain and simple.
its still not a small amount of storage. and no, there's still not really sd cards or flash drives bigger than 1tb, but obviously even if there were and they were super cheap, that would still never suffice as server storage. plus, if you're hosting a node you'd want at least 4 or 5 times that storage to use a raid 5 or 6 array + at least one onsite backup, and one off-site backup.
now we're talking thousands of dollars in equipment just for storage, not the actual server itself, internet connection, etc.
There are actually 2tb microSD cards now, and 4tb flash drives
You literally just described my Jellyfin, minus the raid because I don't feel like setting it up. Think all in all I'm down about $1200 for it. Not thousands. You do realized a 12TB NAS drive is $200, right? Only reason my build cost as much is because I have a few 2TB ssds in there which were just leftovers from the PC anyways. I could've done it all for $500.
Off-site backup isn't required. Nice, but not required at all. In the literal sense, you don't need it. It's good to have, but an extra.
So yeah, 5TB, literally the only metric I was discussing, isn't much. Maybe in the future the person should say all the nuance and not "5TB is unreasonable for the average person". It's not. Plain and simple.
maybe your hobbiest server doesn't need a off-site backup but an instance of a massive social media network expected to be used by many users absolutely will. and sorry, but your nas simply will not cut it as far as throughput goes. it's just not designed for that much activity.
You keep missing the point so hard I think it's intentional.
First off, necessary and recommended are two very different things. 4chan running for the last decade on outdated software with no backups is proof that you absolutely can run things without a backup. It's not wise, but not REQUIRED.
Secondly, OP was up there acting like 5Tb is prohibitively expensive and is gonna keep instances from being made. As me and other hobbyist have pointed out, 5tb is a joke. Those of us running little bullshit servers have WAY more. So asking someone trying to set up a social media server to have 5TB is nothing. If that seems like a lot to you, then you shouldn't even try because it's clearly way beyond your depth.
you're even more missing the point. the cost of the CPU needed to run such a server is going to be more than the cost of storage by a large amount. it's not about the storage, and it's certainly not something most can do, otherwise we wouldn't be here arguing over it cause someone would've already done it lol
your home computers would probably not have the reliability or the disk performance required to run it.
That's only if you want to maintain a full archive. You don't actually have to store a full archive to run a relay
source for that?
https://bsky.app/profile/bnewbold.net/post/3lkpdjgj5pk2i
That doesn’t sound cheap though and it would become more expensive over time, right?
Those specs can be handled by a medium range laptop
A medium ranged laptop can be rather expensive and how would you deal with upgrades or a dead drive?
5TB requires you to be a company??? My personal NAS already has 92TB
@egerlach @toy_boat_toy_boat Yeah, ATProto is a joke and it is surprising how many computer-toucher folks have fallen for it.