this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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'Where negative rights are "negative" in the sense that they claim for each individual a zone of non-interference from others, positive rights are "positive" in the sense that they claim for each individual the positive assistance of others in fulfilling basic constituents of well-being like health.'

'Negative rights are considered more essential than positive ones in protecting an individual's autonomy.'

So when one individual's positive right to do something is at odds with another's negative right to protect them from something, as much as it would be ideal for both parties to have exactly what they want without harming or inconveniencing/upsetting the other, since that's often not possible, the negative right to 'protect' an individual from something seems to trump the positive right for an individual to 'do' something in hierarchy of moral importance and most ethicists seem to agree.

For example, I think people's 'positive right' to choose animal-based product or service options when there are equally suitable plant-based options that achieve all the same purposes, isn't as important as sentient animals' negative right to not be unnecessarily exploited and killed, and to be protected from those undesirable experiences, states or conditions. Hence the position of veganism is very clear and obvious for me, and resolves an "easy" ethical issue with a clear solution (essential negative (protective) right prevails over others' ultimately unnecessary positive ("doing") right).

When it comes to abortion however, I do believe that it's a tricky situation ethically. I'm pro-choice, but I say that with difficulty, because considering both sides it's not an easy position and I see it as much more ethically complex than the issue of unnecessary animal exploitation. That's because I think you can make the argument that either forcing a person to undergo pregnancy, or terminating the life of an (admittedly unconscious, undeveloped) fetus, are in both cases breaching a sentient (or would-be sentient) individual's negative (protective) right. It would seem to be a clear ethical dilemma, where neither outcome is desirable, in almost comparably important ways. However, ultimately I had to decide that protecting a woman/person from an enforced pregnancy (and the physical and life-changing, even life destroying (or killing) effects, results and experiences that can have), a person being a fully formed, conscious and sentient individual, is more tangibly important than protecting an undeveloped, unconscious "mass of cells" from being prevented from developing into a human being.

My thoughts on the matter aside... It seems like in one way the right to abortion is a positive right by claiming assistance from others to "do" something being terminate a pregnancy, while in another way it's a negative right by "protecting" the person via preventing undesirable states and experiences that would be imposed on them by others 'interfering' and forcing them to undergo pregnancy, by denying them an abortion.

I'm honestly just wondering what kind right this would be considered. Positive right or negative right? Or both? Thanks :)

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[โ€“] ravheim@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm of the belief that separating out rights into different groups allows societies or governments a way to weasel out of protecting certain groups because it's not socially or politically advantageous. Reading through the information on positive or negative rights, it seems that's a pretty common concern. Also looks as if that's the entire point since it stems from legal philosophy. Bodily autonomy of the mother is an absolute right. Abortion is an absolute right. Only a woman and her doctor should be involved in medical decisions.

[โ€“] theyoyomaster@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

It's not separating them out to groups because it's a fun thing to do, it's a literal function of how rights work. Negative rights are things they can't take away and positive rights are things they have to give you. Both positive and negative rights can be absolute rights, but whether or not they are something that can't be taken or must be given is important in how they are implemented in any system of government.