this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
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The former Soviet Union was Socialist, and so is the PRC. They haven't reached Communism, but they are examples of Socialism if you count Marxism as Socialist. What makes you say they weren't? Most people would disagree with you, especially Marxists, so I'm not sure what your stance is.
any marxist who thinks that the USSR or China is an example of a successful revolution is either ignorant, delusional, or worst of all, a tankie.
they had some early successes but were immediately co-opted. motherfuckers need to learn about permenent revolution.
now neither country is socialist, both are imperialist and well on their way towards fascism
The vast majority of Marxists globally are either "ignorant, delusional, or worst of all, tankies" then. The idea that the Soviet Union wasn't Socialist is an extremely fringe opinion among all of Marxists, typically limited to Trotskyists, themselves limited to Western Countries and devoid of any revolutions.
Oh, you mentioned Permanent Revolution. I take it you're a Trotskyist, then? That explains your stance, but I really don't see why Permanent Revolution is relevant in any way, the theoretical basis relied on the assumption of the Peasantry as incapable of being truly aligned with the Proletariat and thus eventually would become counter-revolutionary. This ended up being false, and Socialism stabilized in the USSR, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Laos, and more, effectively debunking its relevancy.
In China, the Trotskyists wished to martyr China by attacking the Kuomintang and the Japanese Imperialists both, rather than allying with the KMT before overthrowing them. Had the Trotskyists had their way, China would remain a colony.
Today, the Russian Federation certainly is Capitalist and extremely Nationalist, but the PRC is still Socialist. I wrote a post on some common problems that some people run into when trying to determine Mode of Production. I also made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, if you want to check it out. I think you'd benefit, especially since you took more of an adventurist route.
i'm not going to get into a debate about it, because i have better things to do, sorry.
i would agree that the USSR was socialist, but very quickly stopped being so, and now it is capitalist. that's not what i call a success.
The USSR hasn't existed for 35 years you arrogant fucking western dipshit.
Fair enough, but I would say that examining what went right and what went wrong is an imporant duty for any socialist examining the USSR not just dismissing it outright. Many of the issues and problems with Soviet Union can be applied to any country building socialism as can many of the benefits. So we must learn what to keep and what to leave aside, as it remained Socialist until the very end of its existence.
And for what it's worth, I reccommend that first link I sent. I think what I described in that could be useful for you.
i still think you're assuming what my actual, real-life views are from a silly what-if scenario! i am never gonna be in control of anything more powerful than a barbeque.
but if somehow i got to mind control the president or something, yes, i'd take advantage of that brief control to eliminate as many capitalists as possible
You can't just kill Socialism into existence, though. That's Idealism, not Materialism. That removes the entire process of Historical Materialism, and erases the foundations of Scientific Socialism, as opposed to Utopianism. I recommend reading or revisiting Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.
i wouldn't be trying to will socialism into existence, though, i'd just be having a little fun :3
That's "tankier" than the "tankies" you demonize, though. Kinda just confused here.
Ban this person for using a naughty word
You got temp-banned from a different comm for breaking the rules, I don't think picking fights is a good usage of your time to be honest.
Just pointing out your hypocrisy.
You understand the difference between actually using a word and referring to said word’s past usage by others, right?
Hypocrisy? Yes I understand it very well.
How so?
That you yourself used a word I was banned for using, because apparently it's so insulting it shouldn't ever be used. And you will twist the truth in knots to defend the fact that I was punished just for using the word tankie. Oops. There I go again. But I guess its okay to use again since you're doing it.
Pretty different context, I was asking for clarification from someone who used "tankie" unironically to ask them what they meant, you used it as an unironic insult, and further this is a different comm.