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As of about a month ago there had been ~320 murders in NYC this year.
Yet this single one has captured the media's attention nationwide and cops seem to be heavily focused on this one.
Because modern society at pretty much every institutional level sees the wealthy and powerful as not just more important than us, but they dont even see us. Hell, compare this to school shootings that only make local news now.
Historically, societies like this end in an incredibly brutal fashion. And until the wealthy and powerful really can build terminator style robot armies...
The masses are always going to win.
It's kind of the natural consequences of hyper concentration of a finite and essential resource. People rarely sit around and starve voluntarily, and once the majority are starving, people start acting like a mob.
We see it day to day over minor stuff where people just refuse to follow societial norms. Everyday we're shown that rules don't really matter, and none of the people who matter are held accountable. If someone isn't physically stopped from doing something, they take that as permission. Hell, that was the defense of most 1/6ers.
The social contract was invalidated a long time ago, people are just now realizing it. And that's the only thing that really seperates us from animals.
Crashing out is gonna be the norm pretty fucking soon, I don't think we have 4 years or that trump will be able to hold society together.
There's a very high chance we're gonna live in some interesting times.
I think the biggest thing to emphasize - and you mentioned it but I think it bears repeating over and over - is that when the system fails to enforce justice, people will seek justice themselves. This is the social contract you mentioned. I think we should expect more of this until the system is reformed and people like this do face justice within it.
"When peaceful disobedience doesn't work the people don't stop being disobedient, they stop being peaceful."
Not really.
Look up the origin of the FBI. Hoover was a low level clerk when he was handed the reins. He didn't have much of a budget but he did have the willingness to sit and do a lot of research.
When the time came to go after Emma Goldman the government had reams and reams of paper 'proving' how dangerous she was.
From now on, the CEOs will travel with security squads, and President Trump will authorize them to shoot to kill anyone who comes in fifty feet of the VIP.
This is more likely to be a one-off, like Gamestop.
It will take just a bit more pressure for people to also walk in squads. There's plenty of guns to go around.
Let me guess. You've never actually been in a gunfight, or been in the ER after a gun fight.
Correct. That doesn't stop me from being able to use my imagination to see what the material conditions some people face could make them do. I do it by putting myself in these shoes. Consider people who've lost loved ones because of one of these fellas. Some might feel they've nothing left to lose, entertain suicide, decide to take a bastard or two instead. As conditions get worse, the number of such people will grow. I don't think people who care about ending up in the ER would be part of this.
I wish I could live in a world where there's no such thing as ricochets and friendly fire deaths.
Try expanding your imagination to include things like that. Life isn't a movie or a video game where every bullet only hits the intended victim.
Also, WW1 started because one brave shooter decided to stand up and be counted.
Unintended consequences are a bitch.
All of this makes sense but none of it will change the mind of the person who shot the guy recently or the next one, or the number of such people the system creates. I'm merely pointing out that the system creates these people and they will kill others. The person who killed the CEO recently was already beyond the reasoning you're suggesting. There's no point considering these rational reasons when we have proof some folks don't stop because of them. Instead I think it's useful to look at what conditions got a person to disregard them. If we want to make a prediction we could observe how those conditions are likely to develop. I think that part is obvious. So I conclude the system will create more such people. If they get numerous enough, I speculate they might start organizing into groups too.
Read some history. The Minute Men thought they could stop the British. It didn't work. The Redcoats were stopped by a British style army and the entire French navy.
Also, you can't talk about squads and lone gunmen at the same time
`
It's like you are having a different conversation from the other person.
Them, repeatedly: These conditions will create people desperate enough to take measures into their own hands, like we've just seen.
You: Well it won't work. And I'm going to provide a logical example of where similar things have failed.
Them: I'm saying these are the conditions that create the sorts of acts we've just seen. People are or are becoming desperate enough that the possible futility of their actions won't be a factor.
You: Well those acts will fail. Ever hear about....
People who are desperate enough to take these actions aren't weighing their decisions against historical record, or against any concern for any rational assessment of success. The point is that we've reached the point where people are desperate enough to take these actions, and the level of desperation being felt at large is unlikely to decrease during the next four years at least.
Here's the main reason I worry about people taking direct action.
Blackwater et al.
If you think that companies run and staffed by ex-CIA operatives don't have a plan to capitalize on civil unrest, you haven't been paying attention.
My dude, my point is you are arguing against a viewpoint that has not been expressed.
So, this isn't a thread about direct action?
Because gunning someone down seems pretty direct to me.
Sure it is, but I feel you are ignoring the context of the branch of it you have chosen to participate in, as I've already attempted to illustrate.
Having said that, if you don't get my point, nothing I say now is likely to make a difference...
So, this whole thing has been about your feelings?
Whatever.
A bit of a tangent, but Gavrilo Princip wasn't really the cause of WW1 (and WW2 which was on some level is an extension of WW1).
His actions were the spark and he has gone down in history for his assassination, but in an abstract, analytical sense his actions had nothing at all to do with the beginning of WW1.
I don't agree.
Individuals and their actions matter.
Look at what this thread is about. We wouldn't be talking if the shooter hadn't acted.
The state of healthcare in the US is exactly the same as it was yesterday. But the discussion has changed dramatically
The tensions between the USSR and the West were as bad as the ones pre-WW1. Individual actions kept things from going into all out war.
I am just saying Serbian independence movement in context of Austro-Hungary was only a small part of the buildup to WW1.
German unification and expansionism (but failure to establish colonies), weakness of the Ottoman Empire (this was going on for centuries), internal issues in Tsarist russia, changes in warship building dynamics in the early 20th century, general rise of socialism, rise of national self-determination, increase in literacy rates among the plebs, urbanization. etc.
Oh course Gavrilo Princip's actions mattered. His name is still somewhat well known over a hundred years later. But there were many other very important moments w.r.t. start of WW1.
Not going to argue.
I will point you at a book you might not have read.
https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-proud-tower-a-portrait-of-the-world-before-the-war-1890-1914-barbara-w-tuchman-s-great-war-series-barbara-w-tuchman/1417915?ean=9780345405012
Great book about pre-WW1 Europe and the tensions that made people think that 'maybe a little bloodshed will calm everything down and let us get back to normal.'
Have not read it. But does look interesting. I will add it to my to-read list.
Cheers! 😀
She's a long time favorite.
How is their medical experience relevant?
https://www.amny.com/new-york/manhattan/nyc-neighborhoods/harlem/two-teens-charged-gang-shooting-7-year-old/
Will you ever see Tesla Optimus aka Tesla Bot the same way again?
That's obviously the end goal Musk is going for.
But I'm by no means the first person who realized the only thing the masses have going for us is sheer overwhelming numbers, and the day the wealthy have robot soldiers we're fucked because by then they won't need our labor either.
We go from being individually expendable to the entirety of us being expendable.
It's gonna happen eventually, so we can't just keep alternating between neoliberals and fascists, regardless of which one is in charge when it happens, we're all still fucked when the wealthy and powerful don't need us.
Poor people just need to cobble together EMP weapons if there are robot oppressors. Robots couldn't be wirelessly controlled or have any wireless antennas without being EMP vulnerable.
If that becomes a problem, they'll just control them with AI. Who cares if it's a little inaccurate if it's only killing poors?
It would still be hard to build an EMP proof chassis that completely surrounded it though. A Faraday cage needs a connection to ground wiring to work properly for example.
So we'll be able to defeat them like the original Daleks. Separate them from the ground, and fry them
That was a well written post, but DAMN am I sick of living in interesting times!
I want boring times please for awhile. BORING times.
I hope this is a start and that it will continue. They have left no other alternative
Dude. This event is like a page out of Batman. If you don't think this is news, I can't imagine what you think is.
That said, very few of those murders were ~~not~~ point blank assassinations in public during the day. That's sort of a bigger deal.
Edit: Me not inglesh gud.
Oops. I'm an idiot and I need more sleep.
People are interested in it (see Lemmy as an example), and news outlets publish stuff that gets clicks. What's so hard to believe about that?
The media is treating it like a national tragedy, Walz was giving his condolences for some reason, and so are lots of other politicians.
It's like when those billionaires all died in that submarine and the powerful people that run the media and politics treated it as some huge event and spent crazy money investigating.
They acted like it's was 9/11, because to them $'s are what matters, so when one person with the same amount of $ as 100,000 people, they act like 100,000 average people die.
Do you not see that? The difference between how a wealthy person and a poor person are treated?
America used to have wealth worship, people still to some extent go to the Biltmore mansion to marvel at how nice robber barons lived centuries ago, or binge watch Downtown Abbey. But nowadays the vast amount of people upon hearing something bad happened to a billionaire, will at best say they dont give a fuck.
The contrast between what people are saying, and what they're told by their leaders and the media isn't jivving. And it's obvious.
Look at history...
When societies are at the stage we are now, very very few bare any resemblance to that in just a decade or two. For better or worse, shit is likely to substantially change soon.
Edit:
To put it as simple as possible, the masses are told implicitly every day they don't matter and only the wealthy do. Eventually people will start acting like their lives really don't matter.
Which is bad for everyone, and has been happening for a while now. We're just approaching the tipping point where "crashing out" is the majority opinion
This post really rings true. This is the small rumbling before the big quake.
The reason everyone is offering condolences and claiming this is bad is because the government is supposed to have a monopoly on violence, and that offers protection to the elite in society. Even on radical left lemmy, you can be banned for implying this is a good thing.
This person was at the top of a pyramid that lied to and deceived millions of people and made life absolute hell for people undergoing medical problems. He was responsible for that misery. He created hell on earth for those people. He was not that different than a mass-murderer, knowing full well what his policies would do, only his actions were legal.
His company delayed, denied, and defended, and the assailant had an answer to deny and an answer to defend but there was no delay, just a quick deposing of this guy. It was obviously symbolic.
It's funny because the founding fathers of the US had enough of the bullshit from England and so they decided to rebel and used violence to create a New Republic... but their violence made them patriots and heroes. It's just interesting... I haven't seen 1 person call the assailant a hero yet. It's not like the Founding Fathers of the US used rhetoric and voting to persuade England to stop its brutality.
I bet a lot of people are secretly thinking that assailant is a hero. (In accordance with lemmy's policies, I am not saying he is a hero and instead am saying the assailant is very bad and violence is always bad.)
But we're in such gilded-age end-times right now that the corporate media always parrot the idea that violence is always bad... (with the implied part being the government, backing the elite oligarchy, is the exception) and the populace has internalized that thinking out of fear.
We have democracy in this country and should vote in leaders that actually make legislation that is sensible, but it's impossible because the bottom 40 percent of society are brain-washed by religious delusions that the elite thrust upon them in order to make them easier to control. The problems in society are caused by religion and it's just impossible to make the stupidest bottom 40 percent of people stop believing in bullshit.
The elite have given people a choice: gun rights and policies for the rich... or no guns and policies for the poor. There is no middle class pro-gun party and it's by design. We need to have liberals start embracing the NRA because any gun regulation seems toxic to middle America, and for good reason. To anyone who say the Democrats are not an anti-gun party, you're lying and everyone can see through it. Any gun regulation is a slow decent to zero guns for regular people, and working class middle America knows it, which is part of why we keep ending up with these horrible leaders allowing health care in the US to descend into an abyss.
It's not. There is not chance of that happening in your lifetime.
No they haven't. There use to be lots of violent left-wing groups. Black Panthers, SLA, Japanese Red Army etc
Wrong. . The NRA is NOT protecting American's right to buy a gun. The 2nd amendment does that. It would take 3/4 of the states to do end that right, and about 80% if the country would have to agree. There is no chance it would happen.
What the NRA IS doing is opposing sensible gun restrictions what would reduce mass murders
I've seen it in a few threads, and they're right.
That's my point. The media runs on clicks, and people are clicking.
How could I not see that? In your top comment you blame the media for this. We're saying the same thing, but I'm just pointing out why the media acting like it is.
We're on the same page, but sometimes it's easier to be defensive and downvote. I hope you'll see what I'm saying.
People aren't reading the articles...
And media isnt run for profit anymore, billionaires all bought them up to control the narrative, I thought everyone was on the same page about this by now, it's not 2015 anymore. It's almost been a decade.
No, you're incorrectly assuming why they're doing this but are 3-4 decades behind current motivations.
We're not, but I'm trying to get us there.
Do I need to explain why this guy:
https://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/leadership-overview/cesar-conde-2
Wants people to think killing a corrupt CEO matters more than millions dying for corporate profits?
Oh ok
LOL! This doesn't surprise me. The media is totally clueless
Ouch. Walz pushing crocodile tears for a guy like that, when Walz's day gig is arguably representing the will and good of all Americans. Or I thought that was the league he was trying to play in. Thats a real drag, I thought maybe he had some character and some sort of inherent dignity, but maybe I was just seeing what I wanted to see.
Thats Disappointing, Walz, but I'm sure you'll get some future campaign bribes out of it, which is what this is all about.
It is normal for politicians to offer condolences to a deceased person who was rich out of respect and not to tarnish his image.
Now, with regard to the death of the CEO of that company, it does not affect much because those who made that decision were more people. It is like when a high-ranking government official dies, it does not change much.
I agree.
I'm saying it's a problem.
But this isnt some random rich guy, it's the head of the 9th largest corporation in the world that is predictably dirty. Do you understand how insane that is?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnitedHealth_Group#Criticism_and_controversies
This guy ~~is~~ was the problem.
Edit:
Also top 60 in lobbying...
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/unitedhealth-group/summary?id=D000000348
Bought off both sides and people still wondering why they're winning.