this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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That’s all.

EDIT: Thank you all for detailing your experience with, and hatred for, this miserable product. Your display of solidarity is inspiring. Now, say it with me:

Fuck Microsoft

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[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 124 points 1 month ago (5 children)

What blows my mind is MS fucking bought Skype and somehow Teams still can't handle video calls correctly. The actual fuck did they do with that acquisition?

[–] Evil_incarnate@lemm.ee 64 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Skype used to be peer to peer. Your call went from you to your friend (whomever). Microsoft decided that they couldn't mitm that setup to scrape data; so, soon after they acquired Skype, they made all calls go through their servers.

Then they tried to make Skype make more money, since those servers aren't free. Then they made teams and copied half the code into that, and cludged the rest to make it hold together.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 56 points 1 month ago (2 children)

In mean aside from the fact that almost all of that story is completely wrong, it’s a good story.

Source: Used to work at Microsoft and worked a lot with people from the Skype team.

[–] ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol 28 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 96 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Skype made the call negotiation go through a central server (as does all systems nowadays). Skype was originally built on Kazaa technology to punch through firewalls without a central coordinator and that’s what Microsoft removed. They didn’t remove it to track the calling but to enable larger group calls on weaker devices which required video mixing on a central system rather than peer to peer call (where weaker peers couldn’t decode that many video streams). Calls up to 4 are still routed peer to peer if the backend can find routes through all firewalls.

Very very little of Skype was in the new Teams if anything. Teams was a rewrap of Communicator calling tech and was a response to Slack. The real time chatting had nothing to do with Skype either.

Skype lingered in Microsoft for a couple of reasons; Microsoft was crap at acquiring businesses back then, thinking that a hands off approach was best. It meant Skype never really became a proper Microsoft team - they still felt and acted like Skype employees and they didn’t manage to affect Redmond very well. Being acquired is super hard especially when almost all of the bigger business was in a different time zone and a different culture.

I was at a leadership development workshop with a tonne of Skype leaders about 10 years ago. They were still feeling incredibly frustrated and not understanding what was expected of them. It was a botched acquisition and the fault was on both sides.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So Teams calls of 1-4 people can send traffic direct peer-to-peer if they're on the same LAN right?
Do all calls of 5+ users stay centrally hosted on the cloud? These are the kinds of things that MS should document and make easily available for IT and firewall admins. Finding info on Teams ports wasn't easy in my experience.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You’re way outside my scope of knowledge - I know a bit about the decisions they took 10 years, and not very much on what is happening today. I would imagine some of these limits are configurable and dynamic. I really don’t know.

[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago

You should write a post sometime about what you know from the internals of Skype. I would read it.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

How the fuck did they let motherfucking Zoom take over. The video-call equivalent of "Googling" something was to "Skype." When Covid hit, Microsoft screwed the pooch horribly.

My sister is super high ranking at Microsoft, and when she calls the family, she uses Zoom.

[–] FoD@startrek.website 4 points 1 month ago

I don't see "screwed the pooch" used much but it always is funny to me.

[–] Magister@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Well, I'm a unix guy for 30 years and hated M$ bill gates blablabla and forced to use windows at work etc. Teams was somewhat bad at the beginning, especially start of covid pandemic , I'm using Teams multiple times daily for ~5 years now. But since ~1 year it handles video call pretty nicely, 20+ feeds, share screens, whiteboard, etc. it's pretty stable at least, don't crash anymore, and we can have multiple accounts. It took times to reach this state I agree...

[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In the past two years, I have had horrible issues where it decides that I'm not allowed to join the call because I have a Teams account logged into a different organization, that it won't let me log out of. An issue where Microsoft servers just time out if you have ipv6 enabled, etc.

Don't get me started on Skype for Business. It's still around.

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Oh yeah, that multiple organizations things absolutely fuuuucks me since I'm adjunct at multiple universities/colleges. It keeps trying to default me to a place I don't even work at anymore and somehow still refuses to let me leave it without reinstalling Windows (which I won't do as I'll be moving to Linux full time once I do).

[–] Vikthor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Teams are losing parts of text chat conversations for me. Not sure if that's issue of their PWA on Linux or just an issue in general...

[–] Magister@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

PWA in Linux is unusable yep, with FF or Edge, super buggy.

I'm using Teams in Windows, I have a software KVM to move between my Linux PC and work windows laptop

[–] AccountMaker@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 month ago

I always say that the only reason they keep Skype alive is to make Teams appear good

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

The core of what made Skype great was made by a team of engineers in Estonia. Once it got acquired most of those people left the company. Many of them ended up at Twilio.