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You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don't like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let's point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are 'ignoring' the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren't monolithic across countries. We wouldn't have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn't just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it's weight around to protect it's citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
Don't crime, don't do time. Isn't that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I'm pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It's like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it's not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don't want that, DON'T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don't they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don't get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you're actually trying to argue that it's unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You're very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don't like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn't "attempt to find out" they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
lol put down the bong son... jfc, get over yourselves
You've made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don't like gun owners. I'm just holding the mirror up and you don't like what you see.
"Gun owner" is not an immutable attribute. Its not a skin colour. Comparing dislike of gun owners to racism is ridiculous.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it's an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that's your hang up, the logical next thought would be "what if I take race out of it" and it's just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
Then that's a different issue and should be handled according to what a person does/possesses and why on a case-by-case basis.
You avoided an important question in my post which undermined your whole point.
I stand by my point, their desire (and probably yours) is to make a gun owner suffer because you don't like them, justice and objectivity be damned. It's just like a racist conservative.
I can't take your argument seriously.
People are (rightfully) glad that reckless idiots travelling to other countries carrying literal explosive devices have been arrested, and your takeaway is there is... racism directed towards gun owners?
You're delusional.
You and I both know this is not what I saying, why the dishonesty?
You're drawing parallels to racism because some people aren't up in arms that these idiots with explosives have been arrested.
That's pretty damn close.
Holy shit, more dishonesty.
People are glad that these people have been arrested for carrying explosive devices and you're drawing parallels to racism because of it.
That's your argument, and it's absolutely ridiculous.
And it's very funny that you're calling me dishonest, when earlier in the thread I mentioned that nobody was being punished for actions of their state, and you claimed you never said that. I then pasted you saying exactly that and you went off talking about something tangentially related.
No, what's ridiculous is you lying by claiming I said they are racist, and then turning around and lying and saying that I'm on people for not being "up in arms" about it, when all I've been doing is pointing out the injustice of the prison terms. I'm not even up up in arms about it. I just think it's wrong. But, don't worry, I won't lose any sleep if these people do jail time.
You keep flailing around trying to make my argument ridiculous, but all it does is reveal that you're uninterested in actually thinking about this, but instead just making up reasons in order to claim I'm wrong.
Yeah, because I said people want them to be punished because of actions of their state, not that they were being punished for actions of their state. At first I thought this was probably just a case of poor reading comprehension, but in light of your current dishonesty, I'm not so sure anymore. And, besides, even if I was being dishonest, that doesn't preclude you from being dishonest.
You can write walls of text about how "that's not what I said" all you like, but it's clear to anyone reading what you've said that you tried to compare racism to people being glad about these morons being arrested.
You also tried to claim you didn't say "unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state", when you said exactly that in your previous message, when referring to people traveling with bullets they brought in their own luggage.
If anyone's being dishonest, it's you.
You already quoted it, anyone coming here can see that what you claim I said I didn't. Screen capping it was entirely unnecessary. but good effort.
oof, another swing and a miss. you're so damned close tho kid.... tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don't keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They're the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I'd like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I'm certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can't stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
https://jalopnik.com/youve-got-to-stop-keeping-your-gun-in-your-car-1850929717
so... you do you sport, will probably block you so I don't have to explain shit after this.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it's a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It's makes zero sense.
Being an idiot doesn't mean you're exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they're exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you "accidentally" carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I'd be happy to answer your question.
You first.
Obviously not a good faith question.
This isn't punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn't tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
Yes, I understand this, and it's not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you're not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it's pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
ok, think of it this way then:
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren't they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn't care less why they weren't smart enough. I'm okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
I'm for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn't about being reasonable, it's about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
how'bout, no?
you do you mate.