JupiterRowland

joined 1 year ago
[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

A lot is going on in and around Hubzilla recently. Version 9.4 has only been released a couple of weeks ago, and it already got four bugfix releases. We might actually be approaching Hubzilla 10 in the not-so-distant future which will adopt a few features from (streams).

Scott M. Stolz is back at developing his new third-party themes which we expect to improve Hubzilla's UX. On top of that, he plans to launch a bunch of new public hubs, also so aspiring users in North America won't have to resort to overseas hubs.

The re-writing of Hubzilla's entire help in German and English is on-going.

Most recent surprise: Someone has managed to integrate the Bandcamp alternative Faircamp into a Hubzilla channel.

If only (streams) had more people taking care of it...

If you really want entire lemmy instances to be 100% meme-free, the mods would have a lot to do because they'd have to read through every last post and comment.

Just like not every picture with text in white Impact with black outlines is a meme (it has to be established as such), memes aren't only pictures with text in white Impact font with black outlines. In fact, they aren't always pictures. They can just as well be text, embedded in other text.

Any catchphrase can be a meme. Snowclones are memes, too. Snowclones are the memes of the analogue era. They date back to the analogue era, to the mainstream media of the 1970s, the 1960, the 1950s, as far back as William Shakespeare, as far back as ancient Rome, and I'm pretty sure there are snowclones from ancient Greece.

I can't imagine the mods of any one Lemmy instance reading through all posts and all comments and sanctioning everyone who has dared to use a decades-old snowclone in it.

(Whoever finds a meme in this comment may keep it.)

They’re all about saying as little as possible using a slightly altered version of a scripted scene.

More like using as few words as possible while relying on the scene for the context.

Exactly that. And especially in social media, this is of imminent importance. Always remember that the Fediverse is not only Lemmy.

I'm mostly active outside the Threadiverse. The Fediverse outside the Threadiverse is dominated by Mastodon and thus by people who refuse to read anything that's over 500 characters long.

But I'm not on Mastodon myself. I'm on something that doesn't have a character limit. So the thoughts that I pour into posts are not necessarily simple enough for 500 characters. They don't have to.

So I could write an essay about them. Thousands of characters. But many Fediverse users (remember that Mastodon is 70% of the Fediverse) will ignore it because it's too long, because it's over 500 characters long.

Or I could pick an appropriate meme template that's best at expressing my thoughts and feelings and make an image macro out of it, adding my own text. By the way, I mostly hand-craft my image macros in GIMP. And then I post that.

Sure, I do add some explanation afterwards where explanation is due. I link to the KnowYourMeme entry that explains the used template(s), and I link to what my image macro is about. If I can't link to the latter, I explain it in my own words. But I do so after the image. If you don't need these explanations, if the image macro works for you without these explanations, you can skip them without having to skip the image macro.

A few examples (content warning: all these links lead to meme content):

You could ramble on and on about how tricky and difficult something is. Or you can let Boromir speak for yourself: One does not simply implement FEP-ef61. If you think I'm just too lazy to type, check out the 25,000 characters of explanations right below. That was before I was told that linking to external sources is actually more convenient for readers than having such a massive pile of infodumps within the post iself.

Here, I've commented on the bleak future (or total lack thereof) of three Fediverse server applications in only one fully hand-crafted image with only few words. This time, the templates weren't images but phrases ("That's cute", "Bitch, please"). For comparison, the whole situation is explained below. Notice what a wall of text it is. Imagine exposing someone who's used to Twitter to so much text.

Another example: I could say that the history of Mike Macgirvin's Fediverse creations is pretty complex. You wouldn't have an idea of how complex it is. Or I could use the Pepe Silvia template to illustrate it. That'd give you more of an idea of how complex it is without me having to ramble about it and give you details that you haven't even asked for.

I could also have written an essay on the current spam wave on Mastodon, how it's bad, but how I don't care, and I don't pity Mastodon because Mastodon had it coming with its self-imposed weaknesses, and Fediverse server software with reasonable safety features are not and can't be affected by this kind of spam. Instead, I resorted to having Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear and The Grand Tour speak for myself, using an image macro which I had made as a response to an earlier spam wave a while ago. Easier to understand with much fewer words.

People can communicate really complicated or nuanced emotions very simply and clearly with a meme.

Exactly. A single image macro often says more than a 1,000-word essay.

Of course, it only works if the recipients understand the meme. Luckily, some are pretty obvious.

It's technologically impossible for any search to cover all of the Fediverse. Like, absolutely 100% of it.

That's because it's technologically impossible for anything in or outside the Fediverse to be aware of the full extent of the Fediverse and know all its instances, all its actors, all its (public) content in real-time.

It would only be possible if there was a fully centralised search engine. And that search engine had been hard-coded into all Fediverse server apps for years so that even instances that haven't been upgraded in two or three years know it.

If Joe Übergeek spun up his own personal CherryPick or (streams) or Forte instance or whatever on his own Raspi, that instance would immediately have to announce its existence to that centralised search engine. Otherwise, the search engine wouldn't have any way of knowing this new instance exists. If Joe Übergeek sent his first test post into the void because he has no connections yet, it would immediately have to be pushed to that search engine. And if Joe Übergeek decided to turn off ActivityPub on his (streams) channel, his instance would immediately have to notify the search engine which would immediately have to list that channel as formerly but no longer available.

Now imagine such a search being decentralised, e.g. built into Fediverse server apps like Mastodon or Lemmy. In this case, all server apps would have to know all instances out there with Fediverse-wide search. And immediately so.

Imagine Mastodon had such search built-in. Imagine Alice started up her own personal Mastodon instance with this search at 10:30. Imagine Bob installed his own personal (streams) instance from source at 10:31.

In order for the search on Alice's Mastodon instance to actually cover 100% of the Fediverse, it would require Bob's (streams) instance to push all necessary information to it. In order for this to work, Bob's (streams) instance would have to know of the existence of Alice's Mastodon instance from the moment it's installed.

This couldn't be done via any form of discovery, for where would (streams) go look for search instances?

So an automatically-generated list of search instances would have to be necessary. It would have to be delivered with the code upon installation.

This means that Alice's Mastodon instance would have to add itself to the list of search instances in the streams repository (https://codeberg.org/streams/streams) as a pull request and then immediately merge that PR into both dev and release, the latter past dev, both without Mike Macgirvin's permission, so that Bob's new (streams) instance knows about Alice's less-than-a-minute-old Mastodon instance with search the very moment that Bob installs it, so that Bob's (streams) instance knows that it will have to report everything that happens to it in public to Alice's Mastodon instance with built-in Fediverse search.

Whenever someone spins up a new instance that has Fediverse search built in, this would cause a PR in the code repositories of all Fediverse server applications that adds this instance to the initial list of search instances, and it'd cause that PR to immediately be merged into all active branches with no consent by the maintainers. And each shutdown of an instance with Fediverse search would cause a PR and an automated merge because that instance would have to be removed from the initial list of search instances.

I guess it should be obvious what an outlandish idea this is.

Also, let Mastodon shrink if that means that the "market share" of other native Fediverse server apps grows.

The fewer people think the Fediverse is Mastodon, and the more exposure the other stuff in the Fediverse gets and what features it has over Mastodon, the better.

Mastodon wasn't launched by a VC-backed Silicon Valley startup to become the phone app that replaces Twitter.

It was created by a German high school graduate and metalhead all alone as not much more than StatusNet with a different UI and some features cut for simplicity. It was designed by a nerd for nerds, nerds who didn't rely on phone apps for everything. At this level, and back in 2016, not even an official native iPhone app was mandatory.

Luckily, Mastodon is working on a discorvery protocol that should offer a way to find people across the board, which will hopefully make the Fediverse “appear” centralized to the average Joe while maintaining all the benefits of decentralization to the advanced users.

I'd bet that this will be so proprietary and non-standard again that it'll only work within Mastodon, maybe plus a few of its own soft-forks, effectively ignoring 30% of the Fediverse.

Decentralisation and having multiple instances isn't even that much of an issue. 99.999% of all Twitter refugees were railroaded to Mastodon and what seems like 99% of these straight to mastodon.social. They genuinely thought mastodon.social was "the Mastodon website", just like twitter.com was the Twitter website. It took many of them months to even notice that Mastodon is decentralised. And it took some of them even longer to notice that the Fediverse is, in fact, more than just Mastodon while half of them think that Fediverse = Mastodon after almost two years.

No, the biggest issue is: What they were looking for was not something radically different from Twitter, now that Twitter sucked. They were looking for a Twitter without Musk. Like, a drop-in replacement that doesn't require them to adjust in any way. A 1:1, 100% identical clone of Twitter how it was the day before Musk took over with the same UI and the same UX and the same culture.

When they were railroaded to mastodon.social, they were told that Mastodon is "literally Twitter without Musk". And they took it as literally. By face value. And then they ended up on something that looked and felt nothing like Twitter. No matter how many of Twitter's limitations Gargron arbitrarily and unnecessarily implemented into Mastodon, he never got close enough to Twitter itself.

People would stick around because Mastodon felt like the only alternative to Twitter there was. Of course, they kept using Mastodon exactly like Twitter, not adopting to Mastodon's culture and relying on their toots being delivered to people by an algorithm that Mastodon simply doesn't have. Hashtag? Fuck hashtags, I didn't need no hashtags on Twitter, so I ain't gonna use none on Mastodon. And then they wondered why so few people discovered them and their content.

They didn't want to adapt. They were waiting for Mastodon to finally "fix the bugs" that made it different from Twitter. Which it didn't.

Instead, Mastodon developed its own culture (which is a story of its own). And they were pressured to adopt Mastodon's culture. CWs for sensitive content for any definition of "sensitive". Twitter ain't got no CW field. Alt-texts for all images, and it had to be actually useful and informative. They ain't never done no alt-texts on Twitter. Of course, the right hashtags. See above.

Also, Mastodon-the-app is lack-lustre. Whereas the official apps for just about everything else are fully-featured, the Mastodon mobile app is only there for there to be a mobile app named "Mastodon" for those people who join a new online service by grabbing their iPhones and loading the app with the same name as the service from the App Store. Especially newbies often can't wrap their minds around using an online service with an app that doesn't have the same name. But the official Mastodon app is actually just about the worst Mastodon app out there. At the same time, for many Mastodon users, this app IS Mastodon. They've never seen the Web interface. What the app can't do, Mastodon can't do.

Lastly, Mastodon was probably also way too techy. Like, you had people talking about Linux and Open Source and Web design and whatnot all over the place, something that they themselves knew nothing about and weren't interested in. On top came those people with their weird-looking monster posts that said the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and they were posting from something that is not and has never even been affiliated with Mastodon.

And then Bluesky came along. And Bluesky looked exactly like what they've been wanting all the time: a 1:1 Twitter clone. One big reason for Bluesky's success is that it shamelessly ripped off the UI of immediately-pre-Musk-takeover Twitter, both the website and the mobile app. A fully-featured, well-polished mobile app with all the same features as the website. And at first glance, it feels like the same monolithic walled-garden silo as Twitter with the same kinds of users as Twitter, minus the Nazis. At least not as ripe with übergeeks as Mastodon.

Also, Bluesky grew faster and quickly had more users than Mastodon. Which sounded like more followers in less time. Exactly what all those famewhores that brag about their Twitter follower counts were craving.

People wanted a pre-Musk Twitter clone. Mastodon isn't one. Everything else in the Fediverse is one even less. Bluesky is just that. Bluesky is what people had wanted all the time.

[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago

Careful, though: WriteFreely is solid, but limited.

For example, it has no comments. Like, there's no way you can interact with a WriteFreely post, at least none that the author would notice. Comments are planned, but way down the to-do list.

Also, while you can embed images, you have to host them externally and then hotlink them. I think this is one of the next things that WriteFreely will tackle. It's possible; Plume has its own built-in image hoster, but Plume is so underdeveloped that its devs recommend WriteFreely instead.

[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago

Microblog is Twitter-like, normally plain-text only, normally limited in characters, no titles, no summaries because unnecessary for not even 1,000 characters per post. Also, conversations/threads consist of posts, posts and more posts that are loosely connected via mentions.

Blog is like WordPress or Blogger or Medium. With titles, with summaries, no character limits and the whole shebang of formatting.

Headlines

in

multiple

levels,

bold type, italics, code,

  • bullet-point lists,
  1. numbered lists,

images embedded in-line within the post (with text above the image and more text below the image), nicely embedded links instead of URLs in plain sight and so on. Also, conversations consist of exactly one (1) post, and replies are comments that aren't posts and work differently from posts.

The six accounts of the Confederation had around 3,500 subscribers in total. Seriously, what did they expect?

As many followers as they've built up in the Birdcage? With maybe 1% of users altogether? In a much shorter timespan?

And by running the accounts as pure shoutboxes with no interaction with replies that could just as well be unmarked crossposter bots?

 

I've noticed that there isn't a single Lemmy community, Mbin magazine etc. for Fediverse memes.

Is that because 99.9% of the Threadiverse came directly from Reddit, almost all Lemmy communities and *bin magazines are outposts of subreddits, and Reddit doesn't meme the Fediverse because hardly anyone on Reddit knows the Fediverse in the first place?

Is it, in addition, because especially Lemmy is too detached from the rest of the Fediverse to know what's memeable and to really understand memes about the Fediverse outside Lemmy?

Or is it simply because Fediverse memes go into other, more general communites/magazines where they simply drown in the flood of other threads?

I mean, I barely see any memes about the Fediverse anywhere on Mastodon. That may be either because your typical Mastodonian is not cut from meme-maker wood, or your typical Mastodonian doesn't know enough about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, or next to nobody hashtags their meme posts. so they're impossible to find.

And so I thought that this is more common in the Threadiverse, seeing as how meme-happy Reddit is.

 

I'm asking because it is really difficult to find a place for discussing accessibility in Fediverse posts beyond the limits of any one Fediverse server application.

I'm looking for something

  • in the Fediverse
  • with technology that supports discussions
  • where users know the Fediverse beyond whatever software that particular place is running on
  • where users know something about how and why to make Fediverse posts accessible for e.g. blind users
  • where users take this topic seriously instead of seeing it as a gimmick
  • where it's likely enough for someone to reply to posts

Mastodon takes accessibility very seriously. But Mastodon users never look beyond Mastodon. Every other Mastodon user doesn't even know that the Fediverse is more than only Mastodon. Most of those who do have no idea what the rest of the Fediverse is like, including what it can do that Mastodon can't, and what it can't do that Mastodon can. Many Mastodon users even reject the Fediverse outside Mastodon, and be it because it "refuses" to fully adopt Mastodon's culture and throw its own cultures overboard. This would include using features that Mastodon doesn't have. You're easily being muted or blocked upon first strike if you dare to post more than 500 characters at once.

I myself am mostly on Hubzilla. Not only is Hubzilla vastly more powerful than Mastodon, it is also vastly different, and being older than Mastodon as well, it had grown its own culture before Mastodon came along. Still, three out of four Mastodon users have never even heard of the existence of Hubzilla, and many who do are likely to think it's basically Mastodon with a higher character count, extra stuff glued on and a clunky UI.

If you try to discuss Fediverse accessibility on Mastodon, you end up only discussing Mastodon accessibility with exactly zero regards, understanding or interest for what the rest of the Fediverse is like.

Besides, Mastodon has no good support for conversations and no real concept of threads. It is impossible to follow a discussion thread or to even only know that there have been new replies without having been mentioned in these replies. Thus, any attempt at discussing something on Mastodon is futile.

Hubzilla itself is great for discussions. It even has had groups/forums as a feature from the very beginning. In practice, however, it has precious few forums. The same applies to (streams) even more.

Discussing Fediverse accessibility is completely futile on both. They don't "do accessibility". To their users, alt-text is some fad that was invented on Mastodon, and Hubzilla and (streams) don't do Mastodon crap, full stop. In fact, their users hate Mastodon with a passion for deliberately, intentionally being so limited and trying to push its own limitations, its proprietary, non-standard solutions and its culture upon the rest of the Fediverse. At the same time, they don't really know that much about Mastodon, and they aren't interested in it.

Most of this applies to Friendica as well, but Hubzilla and (streams) users sometimes go as far as disabling ActivityPub altogether to keep Mastodon and the other ActivityPub-based microblogging projects out, and they don't care if Friendica ends up collateral damage. They hate the non-nomadic majority of the Fediverse that much.

If you try to discuss Fediverse accessibility on Hubzilla, nobody would know what you're even talking about, and nobody would want to know because they take it for another stupid Mastodon fad. They probably don't even understand why I accept connection requests from Mastodon in the first place.

Here on Lemmy, I've seen a number of dedicated accessibility communities. But they seem to be only about accessibility on the greater Web and in real life and not a bit about accessibility in the Fediverse specifically. I'm not even sure if Lemmy itself "does accessibility" in any way. And I'm not sure how aware Lemmy is of the Fediverse beyond Lemmy, /kbin and Mastodon.

Besides, these communities aren't much more than the admin posting stuff and nobody ever replying. So I guess trying to actually discuss something there is completely useless. If I post a question, I'll probably never get a reply.

The reason why I'm asking here first is because this community is actually active enough for people to reply to posts. But I'm not sure if it's good for discussing super-specific details about making non-Threadiverse Fediverse posts accessible.

 

I've stumbled upon a weird phenomenon here on sh.itjust.works.

A couple of days ago, !opensim@sh.itjust.works was launched. I was able to subscribe to it from Hubzilla, and I know that several people were able to subscribe to it from Mastodon.

Just recently, probably coinciding with the 0.18.0 upgrade the community seemed to have disappeared, just to resurface a few hours later.

Afterwards, I tried to post to that community from Hubzilla. I've successfully posted to test communities on various other Lemmy instances from the same Hubzilla channel successfully. This time, however, I didn't see the post appear, neither on Lemmy itself nor on Hubzilla outside my personal stream. Even 17 hours later, the post appeared nowhere.

@Hyacinth@sh.itjust.works, creator and sole moderator of !opensim, said she couldn't access the community from Mastodon either. She couldn't even find it by searching for it.

I tried to search for it myself, both on Hubzilla and on a Mastodon account I use with a different identity. While I could easily find communities on other Lemmy instances, I could not find !opensim.

Strangely, I couldn't find !main either. Again, neither from Hubzilla nor from Mastodon.

At first glance, it looked like sh.itjust.works either had problems federating with anything that isn't Lemmy, problems other instances don't have, or it had massively defederated or something.

So I created an account here to report this issue. And even more strangely, all of a sudden, I can see posts in !opensim when I'm logged in, even one that was done before the upgrade. When I'm logged out, I still can't see them.

What could possibly have caused these phenomena, and how, if at all, could they possibly be overcome?

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