GlacialTurtle

lmao like the projected assumptions I was from the US and voted in the election?

Again, did you think you were doing something that the 100+ comments in this thread hadn't already litigated, fucking moron?

I am talking about a decision you made, as an individual

Jesus christ you're a fucking moron. I'm not American. I can't vote in US elections. I'm from the UK. I didn't vote for Labour because they were also endorsing genocide. They still won the election.

What good was your principled stand? What on Earth was improved? What harm was minimized? Pounding the table about how bad things already were doesn’t change that they are now worse.

Why do you not ask those questions of Democratic party and its leadership, people who have actual power compared to random nobodies asked to tick a box once every 4 years?

What good was your principled stand (materially supporting and endorsing genocide)? What harm was minimised (murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians to defend Israel from consequences)? Pounding the table about how bad things are doesn't change the way they keep getting worse (Democrats keep doubling down on genocide and being more racist, regardless of if they win or lose, and never change strategy).

What the fuck are you on?

The Israeli army intensively bombarded residential areas in Gaza when it lacked intelligence on the exact location of Hamas commanders hiding underground, and intentionally weaponized toxic byproducts of bombs to suffocate militants in their tunnels, an investigation by +972 Magazine and Local Call can reveal.

The investigation, based on conversations with 15 Israeli Military Intelligence and Shin Bet officers who have been involved in tunnel-targeting operations since October 7, exposes how this strategy aimed to compensate for the army’s inability to pinpoint targets in Hamas’ subterranean tunnel network. When targeting senior commanders in the group, the Israeli military authorized the killing of “triple-digit numbers” of Palestinian civilians as “collateral damage,” and maintained close real-time coordination with U.S. officials regarding the expected casualty figures.

Some of these strikes, which were the deadliest in the war and often used American bombs, are known to have killed Israeli hostages despite concerns raised ahead of time by military officers. Moreover, the lack of precise intelligence meant that in at least three major strikes, the army dropped several 2,000-pound bunker-buster bombs that killed scores of civilians — part of a strategy known as “tiling” — without succeeding in killing the intended target.

[...]

Israel’s efforts to maximize the chances of killing senior militants hiding underground also included attempts to crush parts of a tunnel network and trap the targets inside. Sources described incidents where vehicles fleeing an attack site were bombed without specific intelligence about who was inside, based on the assumption that a senior Hamas figure might be trying to escape.

“The entire region felt and heard the explosions,” Abdel Hadi Okal, a Palestinian journalist from Jabalia who witnessed several major Israeli bombing operations — which Palestinians often refer to as “fire belts” — during the early weeks of the war, told +972 and Local Call. “Entire residential blocks were targeted with heavy missiles, causing buildings to collapse and fall on top of each other. Ambulances and Civil Defense vehicles were unable to contend with the scale of the bombardment, so people had to use their hands and some light equipment to pull bodies from under the rubble of houses. There was no possibility for anyone to survive.”

https://www.972mag.com/tunnels-hamas-lethal-gas-bombs-gaza/

If you cared about Palestinians, you'd have supported the uncommitted movement a year ago. Instead, you're here wasting everyones time lashing out at randoms on the internet because the Democrats campaign failed due to their own choices.

Did you even bother to look at the 100+ comments already in this thread, to realise you're just the same as the other fucking morons who think random people on the internet criticising Democrats are the ones solely responsible for the Democrats losing the election? That it was their fault Democrats refused to move from endorsing genocide?

Lol. Come on now, don’t be deliberately obtuse.

Referencing a fact is not being obtuse, nor is referencing Trumps lead negotiator, who literally directly credited Bidens team as "doing most of the work" on the ceasefire. Pretty much everyone has recognised it came out in the end as a joint effort.

Ok. I don’t know how many times I have to tell Yanks that actions are more important than words.

I'm not a yank, and the actions are the multiple murders Israel has already committed of Palestinians in breach of the ceasefire, the fact that all of Trumps appointees are obscenely pro-Israel well beyond even Biden, that everyone involved is saying the aim is still to eliminate Hamas and the war is not going to end, and they are literally right now planning for a takeover of Gaza and the West Bank by Israel and the US.

Like what are you even arguing at this point? That Israel is genuinely going to stop ethnically cleansing Palestinians? That Trump cares to stop them? That his appointees care to stop them? Are you lost and confused and think I'm defending Biden on Israel?

The ceasefire started before Trump took office, and regardless, both effectively mean the same thing when they refer to a ceasefire. A pause before they both continue to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.

Apologies, it came across as sarcastic but in the direction of defending DNC.

Cool that people making a principled stand to engage with a political party to encourage a change in policy are at fault for the leaders of that political party refusing to change policy, despite being told at multiple levels, for a multitude of reasons, including electorally, why that policy was bad.

Liberals hate democracy. Expecting to engage with a political party to affect change? Ew, just tick the box with a D next to it regardless of what they do or say. Don't you know trying to engage with a party that doesn't listen to its base or membership might lead to bad PR and might hurt them in an election? How could you be so inconsiderate? Your role is just to sit down and do nothing and accept whatever they say is true on MSNBC.

Because Democrats have done nothing to pressure him into changing his position, and Democrats like Fetterman have absolutely been at the forefront of all the attempts to blame people who cared about Palestinians enough to try and get Democrats to change policy for their campaign and policy failures.

I'm sorry, but no, you do not have to hand it to 'em.

Trumps ceasefire is the same as Bidens. A temporary pause before Israel decides to resume it's ethnic cleansing of Gaza and The West Bank. He will support them to the same or greater degree as Biden. Everyone he's appointed directly refers to Israel controlling Gaza and the West Bank from now on, having just announced they want Palestinians to "voluntarily" leave.

Biden and the democrats can get fucked, but you don't have to be a moron and double down on Trump being somehow better. He isn't.

The White House routinely makes mutually exclusive statements about its desire to “end the war,” while saying Hamas could “have no role in postwar Gaza.” Yet no mainstream reporter, editor, or opinion writer bothers to reconcile this contradiction. This calculated vagueness is central to why Israel is permitted to continue bombing and killing at will for an indefinite amount of time. How can US officials simultaneously push for an “immediate, lasting ceasefire” while, at the same time, saying the other warring party must be completely defeated before they can support a lasting ceasefire?

This isn’t a call for a ceasefire—it’s a call for, in Netanyahu’s phrasing, “total victory.” The pairing of these two mutually exclusive phrases can only mean one thing: In common usage from the White House and its friendly media, “pushing for a ceasefire” means “continuing to bomb and besiege Gaza while reiterating terms of surrender.”

One linguistic trick that permitted this contradiction to go unchallenged is the sleight-of-hand in what the White House means by “ceasefire.” In some contexts, it means the term as it has been used by the Israelis, namely by Netanyahu: a temporary pause in fighting to facilitate hostage exchanges, followed by a continuation of the military campaign whose goal, ostensibly, is to “eliminate Hamas.” But this is explicitly not an effort to “end the war” as Netanyahu made clear repeatedly throughout the conflict.

The White House’s demand to “end the war,” increasingly popular since the summer of 2024, is just a reiteration of surrender terms. The State Department banned its staff from even using the word “ceasefire” for the first few months of the conflict. But in late February 2024, on the eve of a Michigan primary that was embarrassing then-candidate Biden, the White House, as we noted in The Nation at the time, pivoted to embracing the term. But the Biden administration changed its definition to mean (1) hostage negotiations, but with a firm commitment to continue the “war” once Israeli hostages were freed, and (2) a reiteration of surrender demands, sometimes using both definitions simultaneously.

The concepts of “ceasefire” and “push to the end the war” became, like the “peace process,” a ill-defined, open-ended process for process’s sake that US officials could point to in order to frame themselves not as participants in an brutal, largely one-sided siege and bombing campaign but a third party desperately trying—but perpetually failing—to achieve “peace.”

How the US Media Helped the Biden Administration Distance Itself From the Horrors of Gaza | White House–curated stories of performative outrage and feigned helplessness provided cover for an administration arming death on an industrial scale.

Several attendees at the November meeting — officials who help lead the State Department’s efforts to promote racial equity, religious freedom and other high-minded principles of democracy — said the United States’ international credibility had been severely damaged by Biden’s unstinting support of Israel. If there was ever a time to hold Israel accountable, one ambassador at the meeting told Tom Sullivan, the State Department’s counselor and a senior policy adviser to Blinken, it was now.

But the decision had already been made. Sullivan said the deadline would likely pass without action and Biden would continue sending shipments of bombs uninterrupted, according to two people who were in the meeting.

Those in the room deflated. “Don’t our law, policy and morals demand it?” an attendee told me later, reflecting on the decision to once again capitulate. “What is the rationale of this approach? There is no explanation they can articulate.”

Soon after, when the 30-day deadline was up, Blinken made it official and said that Israelis had begun implementing most of the steps he had laid out in his letter — all thanks to the pressure the U.S. had applied.

That choice was immediately called into question. On Nov. 14, a U.N. committee said that Israel’s methods in Gaza, including its use of starvation as a weapon, was “consistent with genocide.” Amnesty International went further and concluded a genocide was underway. The International Criminal Court also issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense minister for the war crime of deliberately starving civilians, among other allegations. (The U.S. and Israeli governments have rejected the genocide determination as well as the warrants.)

A Year of Empty Threats and a “Smokescreen” Policy: How the State Department Let Israel Get Away With Horrors in Gaza

Absolutely wild the apologia for Democrats doing genocide you guys will do to avoid holding Democratic politicians and campaigners to account for their own decisions on policy and how they campaign.

Funny how the policy of unconditional support of Israel which both parties have held since the end of WW2 suddenly becomes an issue when it could hurt a democratic candidate. It’s a manufactured outrage and suckers fell for it. Palestinians have been under a slow genocide for years and none of you even knew or cared.

Oh my God, shut the fuck up you disgusting cretin. The absurd lengths you'll go to do apologia for genocide and to avoid blaming people in power who actually set policy and campaign priorities. The absurd reach you have to do to demand other people shouldn't care about something.

You're a racist piece of shit who only cares about any of the groups you mentioned as a cudgel to insist other people can't or shouldn't care, at the same time as you present yourself as some realist pragmatist who is the only real defender of these people. It's absurd and a horrific mentality that you inexplicably refuse to hold people in power accountable for their own policies, and insist the only option is to arbitrarily and randomly carve out those who you deem acceptable targets, only to then blame them anyway if/when you lose an election from bleeding support.

You could care less about immigrants being put into concentration camps by the US, trans kids being tortured, or women being forced to carry their rapists baby. You are so blinded by the single issue the propaganda you inhale has told you to care about, you don’t think about the suffering your ignorant choices cause.

In your attempt to say I shouldn't care about Palestinians, you already have given away the game. Who's to say you won't scold people in 4 years for caring about trans people when Democrats help pass anti-trans legislation and potentially lose another election bleeding their base of support? Democrats have already been signing onto shitting on immigrants, so surely next election it's already decided that it's gonna be "Oh so you let their immigration policy stop you voting for them!!???" If/when they lose again.