BreathThroughTheTube

Idk I find this type of comparison quite infantilizing and removing of any agency. It's the exact type of mockery Liberals often use against leftists, that's it's just childish rebellion, etc.

I don't like the vibes in this thread. Disrespectful and fucked.

Cuba and Vietnam are both at peace, not currently engage in any hot war. Russia and DPRK are not, they are fighting at this moment, murderous Nazis with drones and tanks.

You are a chauvinist. It’s that simple. You oppose the official policies of AES like DPRK and think you know better than the people fighting Nazis. Arrogant sheltered westoid brat. Some people actually have to live in the places targeted by your murderous empire, it’s not theoretical to us. We die and fight so you can feel guilty sitting around doing nothing and lecture us that we're just "dying in a meatgrinder for no reason" as we get bombed non-stop or have fascists installed in coups in our governments. You know in Donbas millions of civilians lived through 8 years of artillery shelling and sniping by Nazis right? This like totally doesn't factor into your equation at all. So many good people died fighting for the people of the DPR and LNR. I find that western leftists have a complete blind spot for Russians and people in post-soviet countries and don't extend solidarity to them in any way. Fighting on our behalf is just "throwing your life away" because let's face it, we're not humans worth sacrificing for in your eyes.

Also why is your support of DPRK critical? I fully support DPRK. Its foreign policy is immaculate, and they consistently have the correct position on almost every single global affair. They are true allies of the oppressed who show solidarity as they are supposed to. You should learn from their example.

Nowhere did I say it was your duty to die for Russia. Now who’s putting words in who's mouth? It’s your duty to oppose your own nation’s imperialism. There are many avenues and methods to do so. One of which is to join an anti-imperialist armed forces engaged in combat with imperialists. Another of which is to join your communist party and push for anti-war movements at home. Another of which is to agitate your trade union to be more radical and stop shipping things to Israel.

All of these are valid methods of material support that fulfill your revolutionary duty. Just as this young man was doing his duty and died in that service. He should be respected, remembered as any martyr against imperialism. I find your lack of respect insulting and chauvinistic. The mockery of this young man’s sacrifice is not it, and reveals an ugly and chauvinistic nature lacking in understanding of his contributions.

DPRK's government has not been shy in stating that they support Russia in this war very vehemently. They called it a righteous and holy war.

You fundamentally do not understand Revolutionary Defeatism and fall back into learned chauvinism and "above it all" thinking that is endemic to westoids. DPRK is fighting in Kursk against Ukrainian Nazis btw. They get it, you do not.

Hilarious for you to use DPRK as an example when they perfectly illustrate my point and KJU understands the importance of solidarity against imperialism where you do not.

Nowhere did I say fighting for Russia is the only way to combat fascism and imperialism. But it is one valid way to do so. Hence why DPRK soldiers are killing American-backed Ukrainian Nazis as we speak, and I support it.

These aren't territorial ambitions, it is self-defense against NATO encroachment and Nazism. The fact you keep falling back on the western narrative about Russia being the aggressor who wants to take all the territory shows your chauvinist roots.

Going to fight on the frontlines is one of the strongest forms of support you could lend to a cause. Do you think when socialists say we need to “support” something that it means just sending vibes? We mean material support.

I don’t think it was ever in dispute that they were present in Kursk. Ukrainians were claiming they were in Ukraine

No, actually. Socialism is only understood as "positive" under a lens of morality. Why do you care about the class domination by workers and the spreading of socialism if not for moral reasons?

Because I'm a worker. So i want workers to dominate. There's no moral axis, I want my class to dominate so that I, and the people I know, receive better conditions. I know that the only way my class will dominate is if we unite and follow the correct principles of revolution that are illuminated via revolutionary science (ie Marxism). It's a selfless selfishness, if you will. Science doesn't have a moral component, neither does revolutionary science. Marxism has even been used by our enemies against us because it is so accurate.

You can't disengage at the end of a wall of text. Disengage messages only count if that's your entire comment. It cannot be used as a way to get your last word in.

When the USSR didn't engage in unequal exchange once it was industrialised, it was literally out of moral principles.

No it was because Imperialism is counter-productive to spreading world revolution and socialism. It's a material basis with a material explanation.

It isn't "idealist nonsense", the struggle against imperialism essentially stems from morality, trying to separate the two is absurd.

Incorrect. Within Marxism, the only axiom that is "good" is class domination by the workers and spreading of socialism. Imperialism is opposed because it is the highest form of capitalism and we cannot have socialist revolutions while there are imperialist superpowers destroying them in their cribs. It's a practical consideration, not a moral one. The DPR was a socialist revolution against the Fascist American-installed Kiev regime. It was crushed and destroyed by imperialist nazis and Russia eventually came in to help once it became an issue for them too (but too late IMO, Russia should have invaded sooner).

Again, I ask you to refrain from engaging in offensive statements. Hexbear is cool, I don't want it to be an aggressive poison swamp.

If you don't want to be called an idealist moralizer, don't make idealist moralizing arguments. If it's offensive to you, consider why you are making these types of statements and self crit regarding your idealism.

Palestine can't be compared to Russia because Palestine isn't an industrialised nation. The difference between Russia and Palestine is rhat Russia is industrialised and can therefore engage in imperialism, and it does. Palestine, as a colony undergoing genocide, is in a very, very different position.

Where does Marx, Lenin, Stalin or anyone else talk about "industrialization" being the litmus test for critical support against imperialism? How is that even relevant? This is just more idealist underdogism instead of materialist analysis of geopolitical forces. Iran is industrialized. Would you not support them if America and Israel invaded and declared war on them? Or would you BoTh SiDeS because one is a "reactionary capitalist theocracy"?

My whole point is that critical support to Russia is OK, I'm not arguing against that.

So therefore it's commendable and anti-imperialist to join Russian forces in combatting imperialists. That's what critical support means, you support them in this case. So why are you griping?

the arrogance of chauvinists is eternal

Russia is acting in Ukraine essentially the only way it's been allowed to, in order to maintain its sphere of economic and diplomatic influence around it, it has been essentially forced by the imperialist west to engage in warfare.

Once you remove the moralist pretensions and blame gaming, what you are saying is that Russia is acting in anti-imperialist self-defense.

The fact that Russia is in a geopolitical position opposed to the west, means that, in a general sense, the fight is anti-western imperialism.

You can stop there. This is correct, which is why the correct revolutionary defeatist course is to critically support Russia.

It also can be described as Russian capitalist imperialism though, it's not for the goodness of its heart that it's engaging in this struggle against the west, it's for the sake of the profits of its capitalists.

"goodness of their hearts" more moralist idealist nonsense and failure to understand Revolutionary Defeatism. You are not a marxist, this is not marxist analysis. It's moralizing and blame gaming. Intentions do not matter. Actions do.

That's not nearly enough reason, as a westerner, to go throw your body into the meat grinder for a country actively oppressing its minorities, its women, and its LGTBQ. There's plenty more ways you can engage in anti-imperialism such as donating money to Cuba or time in mutual aid. I don't see how that's a chauvinist point of view: I can recognise that the west is actively worse than Russia in terms of imperialism (even if only by the fact that it holds more geopolitical and economical power), and that there are way more effective and less morally reprehensible ways of anti-imperialist struggle.

Imperialism is the primary contradiction. The same exact argument could be made for Rachel Corrie going and dying under Israeli bulldozer treads to protect a "capitalist" and "reactionary" nation of Palestine.

Palestine doesn't deserve support because it's a communist project (it isn't). It deserve support because it's anti-imperialist and de-colonial. Same goes for Russia. Your position is chauvinistic because it holds a double standard, one where you "both sides" and do nothing instead of doing your duty because the "enemy" is one you personally hate (because of decades of anti-Russia brainwashing that makes it an "exception" (this "exception" is the root of your chauvinism, treating Russia different than you would any other nation under American imperialist attack).

You could say the same thing about Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Libya, Syria, etc. All of these would have been acceptable battles to fight in against the Imperialists despite being capitalists. You do not understand revolutionary defeatism and need to read Lenin.