Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
So I had a verbal conversation with a coworker yesterday and now I'm getting fed very specific ads. No possible way it's accidental. I have most of the microphone access to apps limited, I have Google assistant turned off and no VPA setup in my home. I use a Oneplus 9 pro, does anyone have recommendations on how to further root cause this or just par for the course for using any standard android OS? Have other folks had similar experience after locking down their stock phones?
your coworker might've looked up things related to the conversation, and the ad provider figured out that you two are in the same social circle. so far I haven't seen any actual research that would prove that ads are tailored based on microphone recordings (and actually seen the results stating the opposite a few years ago), just a bunch of anecdotal stories.
That's actually a great point. He is older and uses a dumb phone but we have been working with each other over 5 years so there are going to be lots of connections to each other. Furthermore this coincidental ad is rare, I haven't gotten one like this in awhile.
Every single example of this happening is anecdotal. The people who tried to properly investigate this have not found it to be true. If you find a video of an actual serious research who proves this is true then I'll admit that I'm wrong. Otherwise these types of posts are useless
404 Media has been investigating it. They have evidence of companies offering this service, both on their websites and through sources who say they've been pitched the product by company representatives. Many questions still remain but I'm not sure this issue can be dismissed as easily as it once was.
Can you summarize their findings? Did they find evidence that this is being done in the wild without opt in or disclosure? Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's being used. Obviously the tech to spy on people via microphone isn't crazy complicated. The question is whether most apps use it. The amount of data that would be uploaded on people's data plans would be absurd. I'm very skeptical that this is actually widely used in mainstream apps.
There have been SO many tests of this and not a single one has showed this actually happening.... Just because one single company tried to brag about a tech project to get free PR doesn't mean this is actually used...
A few years ago, I've read an article where the journalists investigated this. They asked to Facebook it they actually do it and Facebook confirmed.
Gonna need to see a source on that one, please.
It's scary how accurate they can predict you with what data they have; they don't need to tap your microphone.
You're on a OnePlus; there's always a status bar icon if the microphone is active.
Think of what led to your conversation? Everything related to it you saw or searched online that could've later triggered you to talk about the subject, could also trigger them to serve you ads about it later. Perhaps your friend was the one, and the ad companies have linked you together, ie. by tracking your location and contacts.
And now you've noticed the adverts, you'll notice them much more, where you'd normally ignore them completely. Furthermore, if you noticed these ads, you might've clicked them or stopped scrolling and stared at them too long in a wtf moment and now the ad companies know, so they'll serve you a whole lot more of the same.
I've seen ads for things I've only thought about but haven't actually done any searches or even talked about yet. Innocuous stuff too, like a movie I wanted to buy on DVD. An older movie at that.
It's very eerie.
They are probably just predictions based on the data the advertising companies gathered on you and you just happened to notice the ones that you only thought about.
Even if it's entirely random you're bound to run into some spooky occurrences.
You're on a OnePlus; there's always a status bar icon if the microphone is active.
This is a feature I think for all new Androids (at least pixel). BUT it does not cover all apps. System apps can hide it. Quick example, activate Google assistant voice activation. You should be seen the icon all the time, but likely you don't.
The thing with tailored ads is, you’re more predictable than you think you are. Source: am a data scientist (not in advertisement).
The amount of battery used and data that your phone would be sending if it was constantly recording and sending the data to Google would be very obvious
Its more likely that Google and Co have just profiled you really well and or you searched for that specific topic before. Or that topic was an ad that you clicked on in the past or that you slowed down when scrolling to look at
Newer android version notify you in the top right when your microphone is active and you should also be able to see when the last time, down to the minute, that any app accessed the mic in settings
It's most likely a cause and effect reversal, in my opinion.
The conversation was happening because of the ads, not the other way around. Advertising works. It manipulates us into changing behavior, even without us realizing.
A real conversation makes you think about the thing being advertised, leading to you notice what would otherwise be totally below-the-radar things. People don't like to imagine they have been manipulated, so the conspiracy of the listening phone seems preferable.
Block all ads. All the time. They are bad for us.
It's more likely that ad networks are showing you ads based on the other person being in vicinity and having things in common. I don't think voice snooping is the main cause here
I have 0 apps allowed microphone access all the time.
There is no evidence that phones are snooping on people, but I would say even if unlikely it's a reasonable concern given what companies do get up to.
However it is more likely the ads were being served because of all the other data you're allowing Google to scrape from you all the time rather than the phone mic.
Rather than focusing on the microphone, look at the bigger picture of how your data is being pillaged by Google all the time.
For me, I switched away from Gmail, stopped using their search engine, use Firefox and not Chrome, and don't use their other services where possible. I have android on my phone and use Google maps and Google home. It's still a huge problem but I use that part of the ecosystem for convenience and no other. Similarly on PC I don't use Google for anything where I can avoid it, use Firefox containers to keep Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Meta data as separate as possible, plus I use Linux and VPN as needed, and lots of privacy extensions in Firefox.
It's possible to minimise your data exposure to the big tech companies, but difficult to severe completely. You could go even further and switch from android to Graphene OS (I have seriously considered this).
I would go by the principle of compartmentalising your data as much as possible and limiting access to snooping eyes. The transition can be hard but once you've done it you get used to using disparate unnonnected services. Like I really don't need or benefit from my email data being connected to my data storage or my search engine; it's a false convenience that benefitted Google only.
me and a coworker tried an experiment almost ten years ago where we would whisper "breast milk pump" into a phone that had it's screen locked and everything. About two weeks later started seeing ads for expecting mothers, we are both dudes...
Weird but FOR SCIENCE also where do you see this ads ? In the browser or something ?
Before caller ID people were SURE they were psychic because 'I was just thinking about them and they phoned'
The reality is the odds of things like that never happening are far more unlikely than it happening occasionally
I had a friend that was convinced that facebook was listening because she was talking about some ice cream and later got an ad for said ice cream.
Well, of fucking course you got an ad for ice cream. It's fucking summer, you will get ads for ice cream in the summer.
I bet using an adblock would make it much more difficult for your phone to call home. Try adaway
I have whole house ad blocking with a pihole and its enforced with pfsense. All DNS traffic gets NATed to pihole.
DNS filtering only gets you so far. Its far, but certainly not at the end of the road. More complex and differently designed systems wont be bothered much.
Encrypted DNS or simply hosting legitimate stuff on the same domain cannot really be fully blocked entirely or make your life difficult.
I don't see on the provided screenshot any apps that shouldn't have the mic access. You can certainly deny it and break some apps functionality but you'll be "safe from ads"
did you or some of the people in your inner circle google whatever you talked about? that is also another way it would have come up in your ads.
Or watch it on YouTube. Or look at it on Facebook. Or whatever.
I didn't know there was a such thing as FUTO Voice Input. It's really good. Shame the "Open" nature of Google Android was rejected by Google Keyboard and other Google things...
Were both of you connected to the same network at the time you had the conversation? It’s possible your coworker had a lot of search/browsing history of what you were talking about and whoever is pushing the ads figured out you’re likely related to them by way of location/vicinity. I don’t think android is actively listening to your every conversation.
It's a very interesting coincidence. And say your co-worker was looking up stuff related to this subject why would it be you who gets served the ad? That doesn't really make sense. If mics were listening into conversations we'd be hearing a lot more of these "coincidence" stories and it's pretty rare to come across them. I am not saying it doesn't happen, I don't trust these fuckers with anything. I use Linux with NextDNS filters up the ass, and have a rooted, degoogled phone with Adaway on it because my trust is so low and I cannot stand ads - if one ever does get past my setup I immediately am searching for a way to find out how it got through, which is rare.
I love what you are doing with your house set-up. How did an ad get to you, I guess it was is on your phone.
Friend googles topic from his home wifi. You visit friend's home for a couple of hours with your phone's wifi enabled. Even without signing in to his wifi your phone still logs that you were in range of his wifi for 2 hours. Now you'll get served ads for the topic that he googled about, because people who spend time together often have similar interests, or you may mention the advertised product to him if he ever talks to you about the topic.
pinephone has hardware killswitch. but that cant protect you from other devices like other ppl phones.
I've never had this happen to me but I am always on a a Degoogled version of Android such as GrapheneOS, DivestOS or /e/ OS.
I've noticed that too. Intentionally veered a conversation into a different topic and, lo and behold, I get "relevant recommendation" short time later. That was, not entirely coincidentally, the same day I unlocked the bootloader and flashed a de-googled ROM.
Just disble their acess then . I do not have most of these apps and the ones i have is only allowed very much needed and nonrevocable acess.