this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2025
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[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 3 points 45 minutes ago

That's the point.

Once a stock price is involved, you're just another line item on a spreadsheet; something to be minimized and managed as much as possible for the sake of maximizing profit.

You're not a human being. You're part of a collective metric called labour. And as such, they only need you to be as smart as you need to be to use the tools required for your job. Any smarter than that and they run the risk of losing control.

Ultimately, it's why there has always been a conservartive demonization of the Liberal Arts (Ars Liberalis) and a large push to be the "party of the average joe" who likely goes to a trade school.

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Let's be super real though. The multiple choice questions on those exams are fucking horse shit. Nobody gives a fuck about the content of those passages. I skimmed them and circled all c so I could leave.

And as a physics professor, the math is fucking horse shit. Cave dwellers like me will use things that are proximally related as viewed through a telescope. Everyone else learns it for these exams and nothing else

The only thing these exams test is the color of people who can afford after school test prep to learn how to best and most brainlessly eliminate the wrong answers and guess. (It's the white people)

I say dropping scores are progress. Let's bottom out and hopefully we take the shit basket we call education more seriously.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 5 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Everyone else learns it for these exams and nothing else

A big part of learning is to learn how to learn. Without learning just for exams it's hard to learn useful things later in life.

[–] WindyRebel@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I’m not sure if I am misinterpreting or misunderstanding your answer, but this is my response to everything.

There’s a difference between learning for tests and learning critical literacy and inquiry-based learning. Unfortunately, schools are forced to teach to the test and many students don’t connect with it and/or they are multilingual or English language learners and are struggling because the tests go over things that are exclusive to American culture or students, in general, aren’t provided support.

Yes, even math suffers. Word problems are a problem. Schools have to pull in social studies to other disciplines and science is often neglected for reading and math. There are a ton of behavior issues as well that teachers deal with that take away from time.

There’s just SO much wrong with education. I’m in the middle of a master’s program for elementary education and I’m substitute teaching as well (career switch late in life). I’m learning a lot about this stuff when I didn’t really pay attention before.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 points 3 hours ago

Yes, all those issues are real. I was only talking about "learning for the sake of learning" criticism. I was force to memorize stupid poems in school that I soon forgot but even this lets you practice memory. Big part of education is just showing you how to decide which information is relevant, where to find it and how to memorize stuff. It doesn't work when everything else is broken but just forcing people to memorize things is not an issue in itself.

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 hours ago

That's true, but it could be anything

[–] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 14 points 13 hours ago

The school system is becoming dumber and dumber. They are blaming kids for the failures of the system. They are making decisions to teach what’s on the tests instead of the material. School is suppose to give kids options. Not teach everyone the same slop

[–] multifariace@lemmy.world 17 points 14 hours ago

I am seeing reading ability go up in middle school. There was a huge drop as the wave of elementry year covid wave of students go through. My current students were in 1st grade when they were sent home and are far better at reading and writing than the group I had 2 years ago who missed 3rd grade. The group that missed 5th grade had more behavior issues. I believe data will get better as the disturbance gets farther away.

[–] carlossurf@lemmy.ca 9 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Lol explains all the anti vaxers and anti science maga idiots

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 6 points 10 hours ago

No this is different.

[–] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 86 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

You can tell. It’s been obvious for years.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 58 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

Since "no child left behind".

Teaching became all about the lowest common denominator and no matter what everybody moved to the next level.

Fail kids and you get less funding, because you "left one behind". All it did was make a highschool graduation pointless. And because it didn't mean anything, college became the new highschool, except it came with decades of debt.

This is horrible, but it's not a failure. This is exactly what the wealthy has wanted for generations.

It's why Linda McMahon is talking about dismantling the department of education. They want a bunch of idiots too dumb to realize they're being gifted.

[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 22 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

A nation of slaves, irrespective of skin color.

Chattel slavery may have been abolished (in the US), but slavery is arguably still alive and well just in a much more complicated way, with a facade of "freedom".

Most of us generally aren't free. You're "free" to quit the rat race and go live in the forest...? No. If you stop and don't have money or someone else's support, you die.

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[–] tal@lemmy.today 9 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

This is exactly what the wealthy has wanted for generations.

It's not the wealthy contingent of the Republican coalition that has the major beef with federal involvement with education. It's the social conservative contingent, which wants religious education, stuff like school vouchers so that they can use public funds to give their kids a religious education.

That's gonna be hard for someone in a conservative state to do at the federal level, because a lot of people in other states aren't gonna go along with it. But if you have a conservative state and the decisions about fund allocation are done at the state level, then you may have a chance of running kids through a religious education on public funds.

EDIT: This long-term shift is what the people who are upset about federal involvement in education are going to be trying to stem:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/02/26/decline-of-christianity-in-the-us-has-slowed-may-have-leveled-off/

(Ironically, this article is saying that in the past few years, the decline may, in fact, have been arrested.)

[–] No1@aussie.zone 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

With the declining education levels over the years, these above statistics clearly show that God makes true believers smarter!

Checkmate, atheists!

[–] Zephorah@discuss.online 5 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

And in so doing, dig a hole for the entire nation as home grown talent and innovation dies.

But maybe that’s the point. They prefer the indentured servant status of H1B visas.

[–] onslaught545@lemmy.zip 6 points 18 hours ago

In traditional US fashion, the policy did the exact opposite of the name.

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[–] jared@mander.xyz 64 points 19 hours ago (1 children)
[–] pinheadednightmare@lemmy.world 33 points 18 hours ago

This right here. They want us dumb and stupid so we are easier to control. It is Vital to teach your children about resist and what to stand up for.

[–] GhostPain@lemmy.world 20 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

And it just gets worse. Pardon me while I rant.

Here in central Louisiana, a state historically in the bottom 3 in education, they've now opened an "ag only high school", obstensably to teach trade school and "farming" skills. When I was in high school ag classes were offered where they basically taught welding. At least that's all I ever heard anyone talk about, oh and maybe some husbandry, but not with actual livestock.

The gist of it though, is now all of those kids who were in the non-college ag or business track can now take just ag classes, and it's in a completely separate campus about 7 miles from my old high school. They don't commute from another high school and I can't imagine they have much more than a basic English and Math curriculum, if that. And a not insignificant portion of them will upon graduation go work for their families.

There's also a "magnet" school (pardon the excessive quotes, it's Louisiana and nothing is ever as it seems) in the county seat that seems to only be useful for draining off the non-sports smart kids... which might be good, except I suspect this is being facilitated by Louisianas take on the Republican school-voucher programs. Which if you didn't know is a way to drain funding from "under performing", i.e., poor, usually minority, schools.

So that can't be helping any national reading or math scores.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

There's also a "magnet" school [...] in the county seat that seems to only be useful for draining off the non-sports smart kids.

It has been shown that there are benefits to the smart kids to separate them into a different curriculum. Grade skipping has problems as it pushes kids into social situations they meet not be equipped to handle. By creating different tracks, you can have some students take more rigours courses which actually challenge them and so kids can learn the soft skills they wouldn't learn with an easier curriculum. I've seen some high schools where you can basically graduate with a year's worth of college credits.

Which if you didn't know is a way to drain funding from "under performing", i.e., poor, usually minority, schools.

And I would agree that is part of the problem as expressed in the article. Most states are preserving or increasing the teaching quality for high performing students while absolutely collapsing funding for under performing students.

[–] GhostPain@lemmy.world 1 points 5 minutes ago

Oh for a typical magnet school, yes, I know.

But like I said with the excessive quotes, I'm not sure it's a real magnet school given how the parish has dealt with all of their other schools and the excessive Republican influence in the state.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 38 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

My states largest district is an online charter school/massive embezzling scheme. Self paced online classes, with a teacher that may/may not ever meet the student. I work with a client who just graduated from there.

They had no idea how to solve a one step algebra equation until today. Today we struggled through such exercises as “2x+4=8.”

I briefly worked for that school and had a high school student who had no idea what Christianity was. Really, the concept of religion in general was entirely new to him.

It feels deliberate. The in person/actual schools also suffer - students passed from class to class without knowing how to read or work with fractions, because it’s not even really necessary to have a bachelors degree to teach anymore. I guess it’s the kind of population that will grow up to vote R, to fall for whatever stupid shit the rich use to stay in power.

My only real hope is that the pendulum will swing back eventually. I at least hope that I will be able to personally take advantage when the need is recognized again, that at some point someone who can teach a high schooler logarithms is considered a valuable member of society worth paying a living wage.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 14 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

It is deliberate.

As the article pointed out, the top 10% of students aren't seeing major drops, it is mainly in the bottom marginal students who need more institutional help to get a better education.

If we're deporting all these immigrants, the country is going to need a new underclass.

[–] netuno@lemmy.cif.su 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

the country is going to need a new underclass.

Which is the old underclass? If you notice, most students ended up in service jobs anyways.

If anything, people are starting to wake up to what a waste of time and effort school is for the vast majority of students that are forced to attend.

But hey, it makes you feel good so I guess that counts for something.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

If anything, people are starting to wake up to what a waste of time and effort school is for the vast majority of students that are forced to attend.

For a generation, it had a major impact on earnings for Americans. Even with the expense of college, there was a major differential in earnings between college and skilled trades.

Even now, the current education system doesn't push people into skilled trades. It just lets them fail.

But hey, it makes you feel good so I guess that counts for something.

Why would this make me feel good? Identifying something happening doesn't bring me joy.

[–] netuno@lemmy.cif.su 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I'm referring to forcing students to attend school even though the majority of them will end up in service jobs that don't require the education they received.

For most of them, it is a waste of time. But you think they should still be forced to go because it makes you feel good.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

There are a lot of skilled labor and some professions dealing with a massive labor shortage currently. Having an education system designed which could funnel kids into these fields would be very beneficial for them and society at large.

But we aren't.

And we aren't forcing them to study harder. We are letting them fail and we have the metrics to show how we are letting them fail. Does that make you feel better that we are letting people fail? That seems to be what you're advocating for.

[–] netuno@lemmy.cif.su 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Does that make you feel better that we are letting people fail? That seems to be what you’re advocating for.

Probably because you can't read, or you're incapable of admitting you might have some wrong ideas. I'd wager it's the latter.

These people aren't "failing" because they don't do well in school, just like people aren't "succeeding" if they do well in school. We're telling students that they're failing or succeeding, but that's all.

What you're advocating for is a system where we destroy the self-esteem of most students by telling them they're failures because they're not cut out for academia. We're not living in a Disney fairytale where everyone is "supposed" to go to college, or whatever metric for "success" you have in your head that's dependent on academics.

You don't seem like someone who has much world experience, so I suggest you get out there and see ways of life different from your own. You'll find that many people who you thought were "failures" because they did poorly in school are actually quite successful and happy. Meanwhile, I'm sure you personally know many college graduates who are downright miserable. But hey, they "succeeded," right?

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 13 hours ago

What you're advocating for is a system where we destroy the self-esteem of most students by telling them they're failures because they're not cut out for academia.

I'm not. It was a common occurrence in my time in college; my college had a 20% failure rate when I went there. Previous generations saw a failure rate closer to 33%. If anything, the fault rate has gone down since I've earned my degree.

Even then, it was generally accepted by those in college that those who flunked out weren't bad people, they were just not ready for college at that point in their lives. I've got several friends who dropped out of college but built decent careers that didn't need a college degree but was still skilled labor. With that, they still did well in high school and could transfer that body of knowledge to their current careers.

I never said that a college degree was a requirement for success, but that a dramatic loss in high school aptitude was concerning.

You don't seem like someone who has much world experience, so I suggest you get out there and see ways of life different from your own.

Is that you reading through my comment history and trying to understand my life, or you over personalizing my reaction to a topic that is a sore spot for you and you dumping your trauma on my comment? Because, in my world experience, people who describe the world in the manner that you are trying to do are trying to make their experience the default experience when it may not be.

Your trauma may not be the default in life.

[–] 100@fedia.io 5 points 18 hours ago

guess the previous gen is the real winner before braindead phones and AI fucked it all up

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 10 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

We've been on a nation wide teacher shortage for 40 years now. The poorest school districts are lucky to have 50% trained teachers. The rest are people off the street that could pass a background check. (no degree needed) Not saying those individuals aren't needed but being an effective teacher takes years of experience and schooling to teach effectively. We have more OF models in America than teachers.

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[–] kikutwo@lemmy.world 26 points 19 hours ago

It's ok Trump doesn't believe in science anyway.

[–] kn0wmad1c@programming.dev 6 points 14 hours ago

A dumb America keeps the billionaires fed

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 19 points 19 hours ago

BREAKING NEWS : AMERICANS STUPID AND IN RUINS

wow

[–] Zephorah@discuss.online 9 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

This is sad, well beyond the educational aspects.

Imagine not being in a mental position to enjoy books. The Hobbit. Asimov’s Foundation or Robot books. The Expanse. D H Lawrence. Jane Austen. Vonnegut. Stephen King. Lewis Carroll.

Even worse, not having the capacity for the full nuance of Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams.

[–] netuno@lemmy.cif.su 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Man, novels are really what killed what love of reading I could have had.

I absolutely fucking hated reading the shit that was forced upon me in school. It's like forcing someone to listen to a song or watch a movie. It genuinely makes me sick even to this day.

Thankfully, I found out that I actually enjoyed reading the textbooks, so I'm still reading textbooks to this day.

We do a great disservice to people by spreading the idea that novels are the only thing they are expected to read on their own.

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[–] memfree@piefed.social 12 points 19 hours ago

Just heard a piece today about AI that tangentially mentioned historic lows for "student engagement" -- where kids are interested in learning rather than just sitting through their classes and waiting to leave. The main point was that using AI is not as simple as using calculators because students don't learn to think when AI does all the work. AI removes the necessary pain of learning to put things together before a deadline.

Oh, and they were talking about some plan to replace teachers with AI instructors where adults would still be present, but not in charge of the learning. I guess the adults will just be there to mete out discipline?

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 6 points 16 hours ago

skibidi generation is going to have it rough

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I think I've been reading this headline for 30 years.

[–] riskable@programming.dev 5 points 16 hours ago

Yes. That's how we got Trump and today's Republican party.

[–] CaptainBlinky@lemmy.myserv.one 5 points 18 hours ago

One doesn't need an education to work in the fields.

[–] RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I wanna see a comparison with european countries. To get a reference.

[–] riskable@programming.dev 3 points 16 hours ago

How much of this can be attributed to conservative families finally getting the chance to enroll their kids into private religious schools via voucher programs?

Actually, how much can be attributed to voucher programs in general?

[–] deacon@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, but if it makes us feel any better, future us weoll haven killed for scores like this.

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