For everyone who says we don't want ring 0 or kernel level "root kits" I would agree, but then whats the solution when you can easily defeat these anti cheat solutions by going kernel level?
Genuine question, is there a solution?
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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There's many solutions ive heard like
- Associating an account with a Gov ID so bans are more permanent
- Maybe a reputation system? get kicked enough, or downvoted enough and you get permabanned
- many channels like ltt on the wan show and SomeOrdinayGamers (and many others) have talked about it extensively, but there's always a drawback
All these options are based on some level of trust with someone or something and can be easily taken advantage of, but these are concepts nonetheless.
I dont know why the first solution is even a suggestion. It's worse than having kernel/ring 0 anti cheat. You're literally associating yourself by your real identity
You are correct as that is the whole point of that idea where you bind your ID to an account. The entire reason thats a suggestion (not that i like it at all either) is because of the fact anyone can evade:
- an account ban with a new account
- network ban with a vpn
- hardware ban with spoofed mac addresses, etc
In what other method is there to prevent some person from evading a ban? To answer your initial question, that is the reason. If Kenerl level anticheats are not acceptable then this is one of the only options left that allows us to bind some person to an account and actually enforce a permaban.
Yes:
- fake government IDs are a thing
- cracked/hacked/spoofed clients are a thing.
But otherwise, there is NOTHING you can tie an account to a person that's avaliable to enforce a ban. Nothing is unhackable, or unspoofable. Literally a cat n mouse game that has no winners.
Even if it's worse in your opinion than having kernal level anti-cheat, it's picking between two deadly poisons. IMO i just dont play games that require anticheat, or play any competitive games. too toxic and stressful for me personally to even install something like that.
Technically Valve themselves is that. That have VAC-anticheat, which is connected to your account. unless you get money into your account soley through gift cards, they have your card info, or paypal. They have drm, but not kernel level. your CC has your legal name, and billing address. About as Government ID as it gets with honestly ANY game with microtransactions in it that allows you to put raw CC details in it.
// as a side thought/rant //
if it's super necessary to play/engage with those games, why not have a seperate OS specifically for gaming? either to dual boot, or seperate pc altogether, and just pipe the display output as a PIP or use as a second monitor? then its seperated and not compromising of your actual OS?
It also comes down to other loooooads of other factors, but (IMO) it comes down the fact that companies overcharge, (insert other xyz reasons), which people dont want to pay full price or at all for so they pirate, which make companies put more and more invasive drms/anticheats, which snowballs. especially with online stuff, it's because of the many bad actors (and with how lucrative that business is) that constantly abuse competitive games that IMO originated in good faith, but have had to clamp down super hard that made their protections soo bad. It's the only way they can protect their playerbase, game, and sales reliably (insert denuvo controversies here).
TLDR: Pick a deadly poison, its all bad ideas. Imo, dont play live service games, and play more indie stuff.
What's more important? Stopping people cheating at games via technology or digital freedom to prevent all kinds power abuse? (Forced obsolescence, surveillance, anti-features, etc)
I don't care that much about games to be honest. If they get caught cheating, how about just legal action?
There is a 2-part solution:
- Build a game people enjoy playing more than winning.
- If you need an anti-cheat solution, design one on a server side.
You can't expect the assholes who need to win to "just enjoy the game" when they aren't playing multiplayer games for that reason.
As for point 2, every server-sode solution I've seen has just not worked lol. RuneScape comes to mind when I think of how much that seems to fail
Point taken. Still, I think designing the game around positive things like team work and rewarding experiences is important.
I can't see why server side solutions won't work when implemented properly. High ping? Just provide more servers and allow players to filter that out or do that automatically.
keep your anticheat code off my cpu and on the server where it belongs.
wtf.
why is this so fucking hard for developers to understand?
Actually, it's probably management who won't right-size budgets.
Fuck.
Nah I can't agree with this. I don't think there are many games with anti-cheats solely on the server. Even Valve has its VAC.
I agree that Kernel anti-cheats are bullshit, I don't want a rootkit on my system. But if you are already running a closed-source game, it's not a stretch to run its local anti-cheat.
And local anti-cheats make sense in and of themselves since you can't easily detect things like visual hacks from the server-side.
You misunderstand a few key things about the points I made, I think. In particular the bit about not being able to trust the client that it is running the code you think it is.
I honestly really like the finals. If they're this based I can't wait to see a single player game from them.
Based
Use AI instead of paying voice actors
That’s a pass from me, dog
I though they were paid voice actors? I'm pretty sure they had credits in the game.
They paid them one time to use their voices for AI generation, which is a sketchy practice notwithstanding the fact it makes the voices sound unnatural and is effectively just an excuse to not pay workers.
Honestly I was fooled. I thought they paid the folks for new lines. But I honestly didn't look into it. Damn scared I'm gonna get some yuck next time I play it.
You might be waiting a while for that. Venture capital funded and so far have made a Battle Royale and an Extraction Shooter. Will probably be a Survival game next if a new trend doesn't come along first.
Battle Royale? Do you think the finals is a battle royale? Do you know what a battle royale even is? Because the finals is pretty obviously not a battle royale bro jfc.
Battle Royale bro? Not in the strictest sense of "is it PUBG", but it has a lot of the genre's elements in there. It's basically a hyper speed Hunger Games with heroes. I'd say it's a fusion of BR and Hero Shooter for sure.
The point is, it is about as far from a single player experience as you are going to get.
You’ve got to be joking me. It’s closer to an arena shooter than a battle royale. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
It’s basically a hyper speed Hunger Games with heroes
Ok first there’s no fucking heroes. There are classes with specializations, but classes are the exact opposite of heroes. I guess Battlefield 3 is a hero shooter now bc they have classes? Second, if you think that this game has anything in common with hunger games you’re not just batshit, but then you also must think that literally every shooter is like hunger games.
The point is, it is about as far from a single player experience as you are going to get.
Oh holy shit stop the fucking presses. An online multiplayer fps is not a single player game? No way. My mind is absolutely blown this whole time I thought my friends in my party were npc’s and I was playing a single player game.
it has a lot of the genre’s elements in there.
There’s really no point in continuing this conversation, but please tell me what battle royale elements does the finals have? I mean specific game elements, not just saying something vague like “it’s like hunger games”.
Take the blinkers off, have a sip of water, calm yourself down a bit.
I love The Finals. You don't need to jump into a thread to defend it from me like it's your first lover. Getting worked up about me labelling it a Hero Shooter and then stating it has zero elements of a Battle Royale is absolutely deranged. Battlefield is literally one of the origins of the hero shooter genre. Classes and gadgets are very customizable but have hero shooter mechanics in that the 3 different body types have distinct abilities and utilities.
It may not be a "circle closes on one lifed competitiors" pure PUBG BR. But it is a dystopian game show where people (albeit avatars) are pitted against each other in a fight to the death (albeit with a monetary points scoring element). Like, you know, Battle Royale.
Oh holy shit stop the fucking presses. An online multiplayer fps is not a single player game? No way.
Oh so you agree they tend to make only multiplayer live service games? Which was my entire point. I guess there was no reason to argue about genre based semantics at all!
No one dies. It’s a virtual tournament. It’s literally paintball in the future. It’s not a battle royale. You’re insane if you think it’s a battle royale. Battle royale is a defined subgenre of fps at this point, and this carries none of the battle royale characteristics. You couldn’t come up with a single facet of this game that resembles a battle royale game, so you fell back to drawing comparisons with a Korean movie that still aren’t accurate.
Cool I’m glad you like the game. I like it too. I’ve been playing since CB1. It’s not a BR and shares nothing in common with BRs.
I’m not “defending it like it’s my lover” (which sounds incel af btw). Im not arguing with you about semantics. I’m clearly stating that you’re totally wrong about genres. So wildly incorrect that I’m convinced you’re trolling. I want to get into more of what you said about hero shooters, but further communication with you is probably going drive me to literal insanity. Good bye.
So wildly incorrect that I’m convinced you’re trolling.
You can think that if it helps you sleep if you like.
I guess BRs must all have some sort of airdrop beginning, a deadly moving circle and permadeath. In which case I guess Apex, Warzone and PUBG itself ceased to be BRs since they introduced respawning. From now on, everything will be labelled "Arena Shooter".
You’re putting words in my mouth I never said. I also said goodbye, because this conversation is going nowhere. You just can’t accept the fact that you could possibly be wrong can you?
I switched to Linux to get AWAY from root kits and corporate malware.
Best anti-cheat is to run games on local. Bring back LANs. Gaming on internet was a mistake xD
I hope LAN café become more popular.
Cheating has gotten pretty bad on this game, it really hurts the experience. Do I like giving someone this much access to my hardware; no. But i love the shit out of this game and i'll take that risk to keep the small dick cheaters out of my lobbies.