this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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[–] nucleative@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (6 children)

Honest question, what are the incentives for instance operators to play nice, so to speak? And not just recreate new oligarch safe havens?

It seems like each instance is a miniature zone of centralization and it's still incumbent on individuals to create their own circles of influence. For better or worse that's how we get hivemind echo chambers and I'm not sure it's even in human nature to seek anything else.

Alternatively we have to rescue our friends and families when they start to fall for BS and educate them aggressively on improving the sourcing of their information.

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[–] cy_narrator@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

I dont want to deal with people gore spamming every single Matrix channel again.

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 15 points 12 hours ago (8 children)

Unfortunately, Lemmy demonstrates pretty clearly that decentralized systems are just as vulnerable to propaganda and brain rot.

[–] ShadowWalker@lemmy.world 15 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

So long as it is humans posting this will be a problem. The benefit of a federated system is that you can't compromise the person at the top and then everything collapses.

I just jumped on here today (from seeing this article on Reddit) but my understanding is that the advantage is that the CEO can't decide he wants to suck authoritarian cock and destroy our ability to discuss and/or organize.

(Admittedly I joined the biggest server I could find so I kind of violated that idea as well).

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[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 12 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Humans are vulnerable to propaganda. Lemmy's architecture is against censorship. This helps to push back against propaganda, but only so much. But at least not being censored is a big win IMO.

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[–] helopigs@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

I think we have to build systems that use real-life interpersonal trust networks so that centralized entities cannot just outspend and bot their way to prominence.

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[–] demizerone@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago (5 children)

Decentralized is too complicated. Worker owned is a better path forward and is centralized so it's easier to support and be understood by its users. Moderators are workers and should have equity.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 hours ago

Communication is not for sale.

[–] YourShadowDani@lemm.ee 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I think if we had co-ops running some of these systems it would definitely alleviate some issues

[–] josefo@leminal.space 1 points 7 hours ago

I can imagine better and safer infrastructure, along with better funding alternatives than "please donate to your instance". If people can make a living from maintaining an instance, service can be hugely improved. Think most people are running instances on their own spare time and resources.

[–] limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 hours ago

This is early days; I have a feeling in a few short years there will be ownership and simplicity of distributed services and whatever evolves from them.

[–] cy_narrator@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 9 hours ago

Karl Marx 2.0 right there

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I want not just decentralized

but peer to peer

like Briar, but Lemmy-style

[–] Xerxos@lemmy.ml 12 points 13 hours ago

Well it helps, but if you live under an oligarchy they will find ways to stop uncontrolled social media.

You have to address the root of the problem or you will ultimately fail as soon as you get big enough to be a problem.

[–] psmgx@lemmy.world 41 points 16 hours ago (13 children)

Guns are the only alternative to the tech oligarchy.

You think they can't buy, manipulate, or just crush decentralized social media? If anything they can do it easily, divide and conquer. FOSS ain't gonna free you, esp. when the largest contributors to FOSS projects are big corps.

[–] erotador@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

so we just all buy guns and fend for ourselves? we need communities in order to fight fascism, we need to be able to organize and share valuable information with people. is technology the answer to the problem? no its not, but it is part of the answer, and to ignore that is shortsighted.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 10 hours ago

As to an answers beyond simply getting-armed-and-fostering-healthy-gun-culture-and-education-among-us:

"Practicing mutual aid is the surest means for giving each other and to all the greatest safety, the best guarantee of existence and progress, bodily, intellectually and morally."

That's Kropotkin

And then Modern Libs even observe, more verbosely:

"The structures of our state economies are going to matter in terms of protecting democracies, and by that I mean if you look at economies that were based in the kind of small producer economies like New England was vs states like the South and the American West that were always built on the idea of very high capital using extractive methods to get resources out of the land either cotton or mining or oil or water or agri business, those economies always depend on a few people with a lot of money, and then a whole bunch of people who are poor and doing the work for those Rich guys -- and that I'm not sure is compatible in terms of governance without addressing the reality that you know if people have more of a foothold in their own communities, they are then more likely to support the kinds of legislation that Community [Education, Healthcare, ..] and that may be the future of democracy, if not a national democracy"

Heather Cox Richardson, professor of American history On The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart on Trump’s Win and What’s Next https://youtu.be/D7cKOaBdFWo?t=2139 (time-stamped)

If a Conservative wants me dead, they’re going to have to work and sweat for it. I’m not doing the heavy lifting for them (A Quote I agree with)

Our resulting interactions may seem chaotic and illegible to authority, but it is through that seeming chaos that vastly complex, horizontal, and resilient practices of learning, cooperation, and reciprocity have historically arisen.

By Andrewism https://youtu.be/qkN_nQPpeSU

MASKING REALLY HELPS; Covid, RSV, Flu is a greater threat to marginalized communities. Can't do organizing without prioritizing precautions.

Show up for your neighbors. The rest will come.

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[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 40 points 16 hours ago (5 children)

That's absurd. Large sharp dropped blades, poison, starvation, spears, looped ropes, fire... There are many alternatives available.

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[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 9 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

How is Lemmy (or whatever) ever gonna scale up to the size of Reddit though? If they can’t deal with trolls and bots and spam then what the hell are we gonna do?

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 10 points 13 hours ago

What do you do in real life? You tell them to fuck off.

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