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The Website vs. Web App Dichotomy Doesn't Exist | jakelazaroff.com (jakelazaroff.com)

submitted 10 months ago by ooli@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] kaitco@lemmy.world 67 points 10 months ago (3 children)

You know what really irks me? Lately people are using the terms “website” and “app” synonymously and there’s just no reason for it.

I was on the phone with customer service for my grandmother a few weeks ago, and the agent on the phone kept saying that my grandmother needed to go “on the app” to set her router name. I went three rounds with the agent explaining that my 94-year-old grandmother didn’t really have a phone capable getting to the app before I realized that the agent meant website, but was still saying “app”.

The improper usage of the words is far more an issue than the discussion about whether JavaScript is creating an application experience that is no longer a “website”.

I get that my generation is aging out of the “target audience” for tons of things, but I’m willing to stand my ground on this one til the day I die. An app and a website are two different things. 😡

[–] anticonnor@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Another one that gets me is "portal". I'm often asked to create a this portal or that portal, but once I finally get them to describe the requirements it's just a standard web form or static web page.

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Is anything a legit portal? Or are you saying people should just stop using the term altogether? What's the difference between a portal and a website?

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Webapp is pretty well understood though. As long as there has been WWW there have been webapps.

[–] kaitco@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Well that’s just goes back to the crux of the article. At what point is the web_site_ a web_app_?

But, more to the point “app” entered the casual lexicon about 15 years when smartphones became ubiquitous. If you’re speaking to someone and they say “is there a web_site_ I can use, like on a laptop?” and they respond with “yes, there’s an app”, it’s not a matter of webapp versus website, but of lack of understanding that not everything that showcases the internet is an “app”.

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Web developer here.

If your site has a lot of interactivity, it is a web app.

A read-only site like Wikipedia is not a web app.

A store page is not a web app.

Your bank's customer portal is a web app.

Facebook, Lemmy, Reddit, Twitter, etc. are web apps because they provide a lot of interactivity.

I agree that the line between web apps and websites is blurry, but my thinking is if a website is built mostly using front-end technologies, it is a web app, if it's built mostly with JSP or PHP, it's a website. Things like the WordPress admin panel blur the line between the two as they offer lots of interactivity, but is mostly PHP-based.

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Also a web developer. I don't understand the reason you'd even need a common term to distinguish between the two. Wikipedia and Facebook are websites. Tons of websites have interactivity. It's a spectrum. Why can't we just say "website"?

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Correct tbh, it's all just websites.

Those terms are just for marketing purposes.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

But, more to the point “app” entered the casual lexicon about 15 years when smartphones became ubiquitous.

The term "application" has had a well understood meaning for far longer than that. That's simply when people started conflating "app" with "mobile app" due to some clever marketing by "App"le.

If you’re speaking to someone and they say “is there a web_site_ I can use, like on a laptop?” and they respond with “yes, there’s an app”

I think that answer would be pretty unambiguous. If you hear that answer after asking that question and your first thought is that they mean "smartphone app", you could just ask "is it a smartphone app or web app?" But if you had already told them you wanted to access something from a laptop and they tell you there is an "app" then you can normally safely assume that it's not a mobile app.

[–] kaitco@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Since we’re being pedantic about the use of these words, I think it’s very clear that I said the word “app” because part of casual use around the time that smartphones came into common use in reference to the mobile app.

Before then, most applications were referred to as “programs” and were generally understood to be run on full computers. While mobile phones had mobile applications, no one was on their Nokia talking about using the Snake “app” on their phone. The word “app” (not application) hadn’t entered common usage.

But if you had already told them you wanted to access something from a laptop and they tell you there is an "app" then you can normally safely assume that it's not a mobile app.

Dear Friend, that is the exact frustration with that conversation. I ask “is there a website” and they responded with “yes, there’s an app”. To remove any assumptions from the conversation, why not respond with “Yes, there’s a website”? It would be the same as if I contacted a shoe store and asked “Hey do you carry women’s sizes?” and the clerk responds with “Yeah, we have shoes.” My question isn’t about the existence of shoes, but specifically women’s shoes. My interaction with that customer service agent was frustrating because they refused to acknowledge that there’s a common difference between an “app” meaning mobile app and a website. To them “app” and “website” were the same thing, and I argue that they are not.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

I ask “is there a website” and they responded with “yes, there’s an app”. To remove any assumptions from the conversation, why not respond with “Yes, there’s a website”?

This was for the management console of a router, right? In that case I'd be very hesitant to use the word "website". A "website" implies (at least for me) it's out on the internet, whereas an "app" doesn't necessarily imply that public access. I might have given a similar response to the guy you were on the phone with if I'd been in the same situation tbh.

[–] totallynotarobot@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Have you somehow never interacted with technical support or customer service?

The moron I got at my isp the other day insisted that “internet” and “wifi” were the same thing.

You can in no way assume that because you said laptop, they are directing you to a web app.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

As an engineer who builds web sites / apps, I can assure you that no, they are not two different things.

For instance, the non profit news organization that I'm working for right now has a website, an android app and an iOS app, with all three being created from the exact same code base that is mostly JavaScript files.

Hell if you have to use the Google Chat app for work (their equivalent of slack / teams), you install it by literally just adding the website to your desktop.

Hell, with new additions to browsers like Web Assembly, and WebGL, you can literally run custom low level assembly or c++ style code in a web browser, code that is just as efficient as native code running directly on the OS.

The primary difference between a website and an app is just the method of distribution (how it's code gets to your phone).

[–] VonReposti@feddit.dk 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

As a software developer a website is not an app and a web app is not an app. A web app is a hybrid solution and calling it just an app is pure confusion for the end users. Always refer to your web app as a website for end users unless you want them to literally install an application.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Just saying 'nuh uh they're different' is not an argument or a rebuttal to my point that the code running them is literally identical.

When you're using Figma online that's just a website? That's not literally the entire Figma app running in web assembly?

Yeah, the method of how a user gets a web app installed is different, but there is no real difference between the actual code of a web app and a natively installed app.

[–] Antergo@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Paper and cutting boards come from the exact same trees. However when I tell you to use a cutting board instead of cutting on the table, somehow everybody knows that they shouldn't use paper

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago

In this analogy, the difference is just whether you buy your cutting board in a store or order it online. Once you get it, it's also still identical.

[–] itsnotits@lemmy.world -1 points 10 months ago

how its* code gets to your phone

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

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[–] Deebster@programming.dev 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

They'd be a lot more of them if iPhone supported the technology better.

I say that as someone who's pitched PWAs to companies, but since many of the managers and owners seem to be in on the Apple ecosystem, demos often aren't that impressive. Having to answer "kinda" to can they do x questions doesn't go down well.

[–] ThankYouVeryMuch@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

I'm using the Kbin pwa on an iPhone and it works much better than I expected it to, I don't know they must have better support now. I think the functionality should be more than enough for many companies and much cheaper than a custom native app

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago

Notification support for PWAs on iOS should come soon and that's far and away the biggest showstopper rn.

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

PWAs are still a thing, we're just waiting for Apple to open the walled garden.

I'm excited for PWAs personally as this will allow everyday apps to run on devices not running Android or iOS, like Linux phones.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 7 points 10 months ago

Yeah I'm low key mad that Firefox is not taking PWAs seriously when it has the potential to open up app development to be cross-platform by default.

I know Epiphany is working on PWA support.

[–] ThankYouVeryMuch@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

I'm right now browsing the fediverse and writing this from the Kbin pwa. It seems to work quite well, with some quirks that I guess could be polished, but overall better experience than most installed apps that should be a website instead

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

They're still a thing. If your work uses Google Chat instead of Slack / Teams the only way to install an app version is as a PWA. A company I recently worked for just got most people to use the Outlook PWA instead of the traditional desktop client, and I frequently use Spotify and Soundcloud's PWAs. One of the more popular backend API testing apps is hopscotch which is entirely a PWA, and this was also written on Voyager for Lemmy.