Hello @Chozo@fedia.io and @jerry@fedia.io I am the creator of Clubsall. Can we have a discussion first so we can agree what is fair and I have a chance to save clubsall?

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 25 points 10 months ago

i generally only block for spam or technical/legal reasons.

blocked for technical reason: scraper.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm unfamiliar with Clubsall. Is it pulling them via federation or fetching via API? Would defederating work? I appear to have already defederated, likely in response to your earlier post, but not sure if that does anything. And that only stops them from pulling content from my instance, not what I posted to any other.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

ActivityPub I would say, they show up on https://lemmy.world/instances for instance

api.clubsall.com
clubsall-api.renchesterjramos.workers.dev
clubsall-api.appcafe.workers.dev
clubsall-api3.renchesterjramos.workers.dev
clubsall-api2.appcafe.workers.dev
clubsall-api2.renchesterjramos.workers.dev
clubsall-api4.renchesterjramos.workers.dev

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 16 points 10 months ago

Thanks. I just had the main domain blocked, but I think I needed all of the subdomains as well. From the looks of those worker domains, it may be a cat-mouse game trying to keep them blocked.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for this, we should get a wiki going somewhere for admins

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[–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So im a bit confused, if they are federated whats the issue? Is it just a one way street or something?

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It's a one way federation: they only fetch Lemmy's comment, but don't allow other instances to get their content.

There are more details in the post linked in the OP

[–] Nothing4You@programming.dev 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

this isn't entirely true, they do have some comments on lemmy as well, here are some examples:

it seems to be primarily about their communities not federating though i guess?

and either nobody from there posted a post to a lemmy community yet or maybe it doesn't federate posts currently?

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I was talking about the communities indeed.

From the project creator

Sorry you feel that way. Keep in mind that we built everything from scratch. Federation is not currently implemented, and we’ll need time.

https://lemmy.world/comment/12845276

[–] Nothing4You@programming.dev 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

ugh, i didn't notice they're even hiding domains of remote communities for "simplicity" in most cases. that seems so much more dishonest tbh.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 6 points 10 months ago

Yes, the whole thing is fishy

[–] vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

@Nothing4You@programming.dev

The idea was to simplify federation for a non tech user. I believe that is literally why ActivityPub is not able to effectively compete.

We are trying to simplify by hiding all complexities. If we try nothing new, the results will not change. There have been many threads about ClubsAll and everyone disagrees what is fair and unfair, so it has been difficult for us to comply. Would it be fair to ask for a common set of rules to be fair to everyone and give me a chance to save clubsall?

[–] recursive_recursion@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago (9 children)

Just saw this and while I can't check at the moment the instances admins I've pinged might want to consider defederating from Clubsall

@snowe@programming.dev @Ategon@programming.dev @mp3@lemmy.ca @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Defederated. If they start federating outwards, I'll lift it

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 9 points 10 months ago

Well done!

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Last time they said their developer left. I doubt they found a new one in the meantime so I suspect this site will die soon

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I was expecting that too, I was surprised to see it was still online

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 10 months ago

Websites don't go offline that fast, especially if there's sunk costs involved.

[–] gregor@gregtech.eu 8 points 10 months ago

Defederated

[+] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

its nonreciprocal for monetary gain.

they seem to be in quite a hurry into ingest remote content while not really creating any method whatsoever to attribute that content to its source, or allow their users to interact.

[–] vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hello there, I am the creator of clubsall. We are not in a hurry. In fact as stated, my developer has left, that has halted our development. Also, we are a very small site with < 10 comments a month and I believe 0 posts. So federation will hardly help everyone. Still we want to implement federation, please read my update above.

My request is to agree on common and fair rules so we can be seen as upstanding community participants.

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

sure. its pretty simple... dont put out a product that cannot participate fully. there are many unfinished platforms, but they dont scrape the fediverse content because, ya know, theyre unfinished.

as soon as you get full federation implemented (or even basic linkbacks to the original content), youre welcome to let everyone know so they stop blocking your scraping mechanism.

until then your unfinished product will likely be blocked.

[–] vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Thanks for this. My worry is that other admins have different set of rules. Someone said clubsall should be open sourced, someone said clubsall should be self hostable, another person said, it should attribute posts and have canonical links. Unfortunately the admins do not seem to have common agreed set of rules that are fair. So no matter what we do, it seems we will be blocked. Can we have a viable alternative?

There was a discussion about having a common set of rules which had proposal which is different than yours. So I am requesting some breathing room exception based on traffic, so we can survive until we can develop more or there is a common set of rules agreed to. Would that be fair?

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