Anyone who sits here and claims that they were going to vote for Harris, but Liz Cheney showing up with her one time was just a bridge too far to the point where they were willing to let Trump return to power never had an intent of voting for Harris in the first place.
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
132 points (87.5% liked)
politics
19120 readers
2073 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
There were too many straws, bricks, pianos, etc. to determine which one finally destroyed that camel.
But dick cheney is a pretty massive weight, especially when the camel is running over the left.
But dick cheney is a pretty massive weight, especially when the camel is running over the left.
The logic just doesn't make even the least bit of sense.
What you're telling me is that people were planning on voting for Harris. They liked Harris' policies and knew what a Trump presidency would bring. But because Liz Cheney -- a woman, remember, who sacrificed her own standing in the Party and torpedoed her own political career in order to stand up to Trump and try to give legitimacy to the J6 hearings -- showed up to one of her rallies and endorsed her, that was such an insult and affront to them on a personal level that they were willing to sit at home in protest and hand the country over to Trump. That doesn't even pass the smell test. Those people were never going to vote for Harris anyway. Cheney was just a convenient excuse.
You don't have to like Liz Cheney. God knows I don't agree with her on a single political issue. But Liz Cheney wasn't running for office. Liz Cheney is a far-right nutjob, but even she's giving MAGA the side-eye. It's a prime example of winning the battle but losing the war. Sometimes, you have to look at the bigger picture, and in some battles, you need to accept that the enemy of your enemy sometimes really is your friend, if only for a little while.
It's not like Harris picked Cheney for VP or something.
You're starting from a flawed assumption. It's more like "Oh boy, the DNC made the decision to ditch Biden and run someone slightly progressive, how exciting," to "Why hasn't she called it a genocide, is she going to be any different on Israel than Biden," to "Why do they keep insisting the economy is fine directly to the face of people who are currently suffering," to "Why did we even bother ditching Joe Biden if Harris isn't going to make any changes from him," until finally "Liz fucking Cheney? Seriously? Fine, just tell me to fuck off before you take my $20 next time."
I think a lot of people were very invigorated to vote for the Harris/Walz ticket when it was first announced, and then little by little that energy was whittled away.
This is the answer. People straight up just didn't show up. Dems lost races they could've won because too many people just said fuck it after enough crap from this campaign. I'm in AZ, after the election I'm finding out quite a few people I know just didn't go.
Did you read the article? And if so, was it before or after constructing your straw man?
Not the OP, but I started reading it, and the first sentence is starting the bullshit already.
Conservatives backed Trump by bigger percentages than in 2020.
There were 1 million more votes for Trump than in 2020, while there were 14 million fewer votes for Harris compared to Biden. So while it's technically true it's ignoring the damned elephant in the room. 13 million people didn't sit out this election or switch sides because of Liz Cheney.
If the very first sentence is already this disingenuous, the rest of the article isn't even worth wasting my time.
The followup is that sitting with Cheney wasted time that could have been spent reaching those 14M instead of wasting it on people who were never going to vote Harris.
14 million isn't something Harris could do on her own. They left because the Dem establishment gave no reason to show they cared about people. While the Republican were saying "it's hard, we'll fix it" the Dems kept insisting "it's actually not that bad".
Obviously the Reps "fix" will be worse, but the Dems just stuck their head in the sand and ignored everything the average American needs to get by on a daily basis. It's why 14 million voters abandoned them. 1 million went to Trump, the other 13 million gave up.
They left because the Dem establishment gave no reason to show they cared about people
Maybe not hanging around with Liz Cheney would be a start on that.
Your numbers are a bit off, counting votes is still happening. We are currently at 97%. Trump is up about 1.6 million more votes than 2020 and Harris is down about 8.4 million votes from Biden 2020.
Claiming Liz Cheney is responsible for 13 million people not voting is the bullshit.
2020 had the highest voter turnout ever because of the pandemic.
Billionaires were doing things like buying votes to avoid being taxed by Kamala.
Republicans convinced many Americans that Biden and his “radical left wing” policies were responsible for inflation.
Enemy nations like China and Russia favored Trump and used their bot farms accordingly.
No one I know that voted irl ever even cared about Liz Cheney.
The idea that Liz Cheney could sway 13 million votes is ridiculous.
That ain't a strawman. It's calling a spade a spade.
No she wasn't. She was an excellent symbol that even crazy, hard-line conservatives know trump is insane.
Kamala lost because she did what Democrats always do: ignore progressives and go hard right. If she had played to the god damn left like she should have, Liz Cheney would give that some real depth.
It still did, but less, due to the lack of going left. Liz didn't cost anybody shit.
You know you're contradicting yourself, right?
Actively embracing the daughter with identical politics of Dick Cheney IS going hard right.
It may say "sane Republicans oppose Trump", but it also says "we are so obsessed with winning over the Right that we'll endorse people who are against everything we pretend to believe in while ignoring the Left that we're pretending to represent"
It didn't "add depth", it made obvious their hypocrisy and lack of regard for policy that affects the lives of regular people more than those of themselves and their owner donors.
Dems: Republicans are Nazis
Also Dems: we're campaigning with Republicans!
Two points:
-
all Nazis are fascists but not all fascists are Nazis. Nazis liked public works projects and pretending to be socialists, both of which are anathema to the American Fascist Party
-
The ones campaigning with Republicans stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the fact that Republicans are fascists.
Other than the campaigning with the politically identical daughter of a war criminal, admitting that it consists of giving concessions to fascists is SUPER inconvenient for the party pretending that "bipartisanship" is the greatest political virtue.
Dems: We will never bow down to fascists!
Also Dems: We love to reach across the aisle, we can build some of the border wall!
Dems: Trump is quoting Hitler and his followers are enjoying it.
Also Dems: Look how many former Trump supporters love us! That means we'll will!
Why do try to get the "ravid racist redneck" vote instead of a united front to stop fascists by giving aid to BIPOC, women, and queers?
I mentioned this in a comment last week and was called a sexist for not supporting women, because I dared to say a Cheney endorsement was bad for Dems.
All those Republican dog whistles they kept blowing, Boasting about all those Republican endorsements while shifting the party hard to the right only got them 5% of the Republican vote and cause them to lose the election. Even paying for a bunch of celebrity endorsements didn't help them. They are a joke of a party and need to be abandoned.
- The article argues campaigning with Liz Cheney seems to have no effect. Calling it an "electoral fiasco," especially in the headline, clearly implies that it was detrimental in a significant way.
- The evidence that the rallies were ineffective is comparing Harris's results against Biden's. This is terrible analysis. This should be at least a difference-in-difference comparison (the difference in the change vs Biden, using similar counties that were/weren't visited). Useful evidence that their analysis actually works would be applying it to strategies they think were positive, and showing the relative improvement there.
No. Fucking. Shit.
In a long line of idiotic missteps and stupid fucking decisions, this was up there with every other contending for first place in an endless line of mistakes.
I'm done with this "oopsie! We made a mistake" bullshit. The DNC can fuck off. They don't represent me. Liz Cheney and her ghoul of a father even less-so.
God damn this moronic timeline.
Duh. We said that on day 0 of it happening.
Granted, when saying that we were all down-voted to oblivion by Blue MAGA apologists who "knew better" and were telling us that voters just needed accept what the Democrats were serving, but then, here we are. Living the outcome of a strategy that directly contributed to the downfall of the idea of western Liberal Democracy.
The brain worm that ate NPR liberals brains on the issue of "strategic voting", as if they had a strategic thought in their head, needs to routed out and crushed in the dirt.
I really doubt this had anything to do with it. Why would dems give a shit if Cheney was like “for gods sake vote for anyone but Trump - at least Kamala is sane”?
A lot of people are like "if someone as evil as Cheney is endorsing Harris that's not a good sign, and if Harris is actively bringing her on stage and talking about how great she is that's DEFINITELY not a good sign"
I said exactly those things and got downvoted to oblivion here
Nobody gave a shit but a handful of people in left-wing forums like this. And I doubt any stayed home or voted Trump over it.