this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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Something is wrong with this split-screen picture. On one side, former president Donald Trump rants about mass deportations and claims to have stopped "wars with France," after being described by his longest-serving White House chief of staff as a literal fascist. On the other side, commentators debate whether Vice President Kamala Harris performed well enough at a CNN town hall to "close the deal."

...

Let’s review: First, Harris was criticized for not doing enough interviews — so she did multiple interviews, including with nontraditional media. She was criticized for not doing hostile interviews — so she went toe to toe with Bret Baier of Fox News. She was criticized as being comfortable only at scripted rallies — so she did unscripted events, such as the town hall on Wednesday. Along the way, she wiped the floor with Trump during their one televised debate.

Trump, meanwhile, stands before his MAGA crowds and spews nonstop lies, ominous threats, impossible promises and utter gibberish. His rhetoric is dismissed, or looked past, without first being interrogated.

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[–] soul@lemmy.world 6 points 2 hours ago

I'd love nothing more than to see her just spend an hour straight laying into Trump and Vance with f-bomb strewn attacks and continuous heavy-handed insults. I think she'd probably convert some Republicans if she did that.

[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago

I hope nobody tells Trump about Pol Pot,..

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 13 points 4 hours ago

Yes, that's the advantage of leading a cult.

[–] Talisker@lemmy.world 17 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Weird that this has to be explained this late into the game but…

Trump is running on the promise of enacting fascism and using state power to mete out retribution to the ‘undesirables’ that his voters blame for their lack of power. To this end there is nothing he can say or do that will make them not vote for him. He is promising power and as long as he wins his promise is kept.

Kamala is running on a platform of ‘not fascism’ and to that end she does need to provide a coherent alternate worldview to mindless retribution. It’s not enough for her to walk the middle of the road and say as little as possible. She needs to give people a diametrically opposed worldview. She needs to be capable of explaining why fascist retribution isn’t good or helpful. She can not just be a diet Republican. She needs to have coherent answers to their obvious bullshit.

Hope this helps. Horrifying that the people who are a decade into Trumpism and ostensibly responsible for stopping it don’t seem to have the slightest clue what motivates it or how to counter it.

[–] b_n@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

She has been talking about a different way of doing things though, I got the feeling she talked about many policies in the debate that people have ignored.

Non American here, but it really feels like there is nothing she can do to shake the non-trump thing. Lemmy is full of "Trump bad", but I'm missing the "Kamala good". Its as though no one wants to say it, and it feels like it always comes back to Israel. That is understandable too, however she is not a one policy candidate, however it feels like that is how its reduced.

Honestly I get the feeling that its either:

  1. People being very opposed to one policy enough that its blinding them
  2. Literal trolls trying to make enough noise to make it a trump vs. Non-trump to disenfranchise the voters

I want to see the "Kamala stands good on policy X" posts here. They should exist but where are they?

No I dont condone the Israel shit, but there has to be more to it. That's too simple.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 1 points 45 minutes ago

It's not just "one policy" though. That kind of reduces it to a bloodless difference of opinion or something. We're not haggling over tax rates or something, this is a literal, ongoing genocide. If Kamala is wrong on genocide, she can't be "good", no matter what other policy positions she has.

[–] mynameisigglepiggle@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Why not promise trumpism with a wink, and then deliver none of it?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Because trumpists won't buy the act but Democrats will.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Her supporters on the lemmyverse keep saying that's what's she's doing...

[–] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 hour ago

Literally nobody is saying or thinking that

[–] auzy@lemmy.world 32 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

She passed the bar exam and operated as a lawyer for years independently defending special assault victims and others victims. She never went bankrupt and has been successful

Trump boasted you need to be "quite" smart to win golf club championships during the debate with Biden, he went bankrupt multiple times and raped women. He can't even hang onto lawyers

Yet Republicans are now calling kamala incompetent

[–] 34dfg4g13@lemmings.world 6 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Well of course Kamala is incompetent to them, their goal is to destroy America and only Trump can deliver that.

[–] auzy@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

He doesn't even need to be president to do that. He's succeeding regardless.

So might as well vote kamala if that's the reason

[–] Notyou@sopuli.xyz 24 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Is it too much to ask her to go on a 10 minute rant about someone she showered with had the best vagina and every single lady that showered with her spoke highly of how great her vagina is?

[–] CheeryLBottom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

I had thought the same thing

[–] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 76 points 14 hours ago (7 children)

I'll take the downvotes, but a large part of this is because she's a woman. "One candidate (a man) can rant about gibberish while the other (a woman) has to be perfect." doesn't just apply to politics, this sounds like every office I've ever worked in.

[–] sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world 31 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

a large part of this is because she’s a woman.

the slogan I've seen on some shirts, "You're lucky we are only looking for equality and not revenge" comes to mind.

[–] Notyou@sopuli.xyz 16 points 10 hours ago

As a straight white man, I wouldn't mind wearing a shirt that says "Good thing they only want equality and not revenge" and let people guess who it is referring to.

[–] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago

the slogan I’ve seen on some shirts, “good thing we are only looking for equality and not revenge” comes to mind.

Jesus Christ, I love that so much.

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[–] graeghos_714@lemmy.world 45 points 15 hours ago

One side expects their candidates to hold some standards, the other side doesn't care. It's like watching a sporting event with a homer who only sees the world based on how it effects their team winning or losing. Fairness doesn't come into play, the other side is always cheating and getting favored media exposure.

[–] AshMan85@lemmy.world 182 points 18 hours ago (10 children)

because most major media supports trump.

[–] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 112 points 18 hours ago (10 children)

You mean the ones whos mega-rich owners are being promised massive tax cuts by trump? Those very same ones?

I'm shocked to my core. I'm glad I was sitting down when I read your comment.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 26 points 17 hours ago

But but but there's no direct physical evidence of these major media owners handing giant round bags of cash with big dollar signs on them to trump personally while they twirl their moustaches!!!

Don't you see - we can't know if they support him or not!

/s obvs christ some people on here are russian trolls or steadfastly refuse to understand a goddamned thing

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[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

The truth is not better but there's some nuance. Major media do not usually care about being for or against fascism. They care about clicks, and following "journalistic ethics" that boil down to Enlightened Centrism™ and bothsidesism.

Their billionaire owners don't even have to interfere (most of the time). The system self-selects to make money through a shared set of beliefs in what constitutes "proper journalism". This makes journalists, as a profession, ontologically incapable of fighting against fascists. They truly, honestly, firmly believe that "Fascist about to win US Presidency" is not a statement of fact.

It's the same ideological pitfalls that makes Serious Media pit science against whichever anti-science fad is trendy right now. Vaccines, "climatic skepticism", etc. anything goes and the journalists in charge truly genuinely from their heart believe that is a fair and balanced approach.

Not to say there aren't actual conspiracies from time to time of course, but even actual independent traditional journalism has generally failed to accurately report on the rise of fascism.

[–] AshMan85@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

No, they definitely care for Trump to be elected. Major media is owned by oligarchs. Oligarchs support fascism. Plan and simple

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[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 25 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I had a thought about this; fascism exists because there are evil but effective ways of swaying people. By scapegoating immigrants and providing propaganda, he's doing exactly what other fascists have done (including Hitler) to great success.

It's like any other good vs evil things, the good guys always have extra hurdles to deal with, like a super hero who has to save civilians and can't just sucker punch the baddies. Too bad this is reality, and the good guys aren't guaranteed to win...

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 11 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

it also shows how complicit media is in fascism and how any law that would enforce factual reporting by bringing conduct before a jury to decide whether intentional lying occurred by a celebrity or media platform would undermine fascistic lies.

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[–] Gorillazrule@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

To me it seems like less of a double standard and more of a representation of the divide between Americans.

Trump gets plenty of criticism from all around. Including from the same people that are also criticizing Harris. But his voter base is in full support of the stuff he's spewing, and will believe anything he says wholesale. Even if it's crazy, or unsubstantiated, or demonstrable lies.

The people who make legitimate criticisms of Harris are not supportive of trump. But them criticizing Trump will not change Trump. He already has unwavering support from a large number of people. Why would he do anything to gain the support of someone who is willing to call him out on his bullshit and hold him to an actual standard? And it's not going to change the minds of any of his cult-like voters. However they do have hope that by criticizing Harris they might see her actually make changes towards becoming a candidate they wholesale fully support. Not a candidate that they are forced to choose because of the alternative. But a candidate that they actively want to be elected. These criticisms might also be persuasive to other Harris supporters and call them to be vocal and advocate for her to change as well.

So it's less of individuals having double standards and treating the candidates differently, but the two polar opposite standards that the voter bases have.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

the media often bandwagons along these things so end up with bizarre and insane juxtapositions of like Kamala Harris' actual proposed housing policies being being compared with like speculation on how mass deportations and military invasions of cities will affect housing prices or something.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 13 points 14 hours ago

Problem with that is, she's getting the pull from both sides, the far left and the disTrumpled right. She can't do enough of what either wants without losing the other, and she needs both to pull off a strong enough win to save democracy. So she's walking a tightthread while dodging spitballs.

Meanwhile Trump is splashing about in his pigsty, slinging mud and shit, which his people gleefully eat and smear all over.

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[–] themachine@lemm.ee 86 points 18 hours ago (11 children)

It’s obvious that there is a double standard but it’s too late to point it out.

Time is up.

If people are “undecided” they aren’t going to even consider media fairness or maybe even logic at this point.

It’s Donald Fuckin Trump. Rapist. Fascist. Liar. Cheat. Insert hundreds of other negatives and reasons why he should not have power and be in jail.

It’s voting time. That’s all that’s left. He won the media and the narrative enough to make it a race at all. Pointing it out now is fruitless - he got away with that shit for his purposes.

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[–] GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 54 points 18 hours ago (14 children)

One side must bring peace to the middle east, the other side is allowed to tell Israel to kill Palestinians faster.

And before someone comes defending their stance not to vote for either genocidal enabler, why aren't you trying to save as many people as possible? Are you ok with more people dying because of your ideals? Enjoy living with that choice if he wins.

[–] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

It's not only about Palestine. Americans should now focus on the things they can actually change. Harris is the best candidate overall, because, well, her adversary is Donald F. Trump, but when it comes to Israel and Palestine both candidates are abysmal.

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[–] bradinutah@thelemmy.club 41 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
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