this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] rekabis@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Any that’s the hypocrisy of Vegans. Milk and honey are the only two animal-based food sources that don’t involve the killing of animals. And in the case of most cow breeds, milking is actually needed as they have been bred to produce far more milk than their calves drink. And with careful management of the hive, you can harvest a lot of honey from a mature hive without negatively affecting the hive itself - it just delays/defers new queen production and swarming, which is desirable anyhow - no beekeeper who has hives primarily for crop pollination wants to have hives swarming each and every year.

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Eggs? Even if you count "fertilized" as being an animal, the vast majority of eggs aren't fertilized.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago
[–] NutWrench@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago

Can you milk a bee? I didn't think so!

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 20 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Honey is a by-product of bees, the same way that all human made food is a by-products of humans.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 23 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

so if I buy food from people I'm basically a cannibal

[–] Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 hours ago (6 children)

I think it’s more accurate to think of you trapping humans in your basement and leaving them a bag of groceries every once in a while. Then you go down there and take whatever they cooked with the produce. They get to eat what they make, you just get the leftovers. They also can’t leave.

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 1 points 3 hours ago

Sure if the humans have no idea they are in captivity and their lives are basically the same they would have been otherwise.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 hours ago

Except the leftovers part, bees don't make "extra" or "leftover" honey.

[–] ThermonuclearCactus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (2 children)

Actually if bees don't like the hive you put them in, they absolutely will leave. I haven't had happen to me personally but I have heard of it happening to others; you put the package in and come back to find that 200$+ worth of bees just upped and flew away.

[–] Spacenut@lemmy.world 9 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

This isn't true for the vast majority of commercial honey unfortunately. If you're buying it from the supermarket, or any producer that operates at even medium scale, they'll clip the wings of the queen so that the hive is unable to leave even if they want to.

[–] ThermonuclearCactus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

And then they lose the hive anyway due to CCD or some nutrient deficiency that results from only consuming almond nectar.

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[–] mindaika@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 hours ago (2 children)
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[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago

Dude, language!

/s

[–] angelmountain@feddit.nl 54 points 15 hours ago (28 children)

Stupid discussion. It does not matter whether something is in the box "vegan". Ask yourself why you would or would not eat something. If you don't want to eat(/drink) dairy because of the way the animals that produce the dairy are treated, would you be ok when they are treated differently? Are bees treated in the same way? Does it matter if you treat them in this way? Those should be your questions, not "does it belong in this box?".

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works -1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

If you can explain a vegan way to get milk, meat, or honey then I'm all ears. You seem to be implying there is some gray area here.

[–] JayObey711@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

No he's implying that eating something just because it is "Vegan" is not understanding the point. Vegans usually don't eat stuff because it's bad for the environment or because they see animals as equal lifeforms and don't want to cause them harm. If you don't eat most animal products because of the environment then you might be ok with eating oysters on occasion. They have a similar co2 footprint as most vegetables. Similarly honey has an even smaller footprint.

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[–] weeeeum@lemmy.world 111 points 18 hours ago (28 children)

I feel like instead of a giant push for veganism, there should just be a push to eat what's sustainable.

Beef and dairy? Causes huge amount of greenhouse gasses and with current methods of production, it is not sustainable

Blue fin tuna? These things have been way over fished and are endangered. Not sustainable, just try it once and move one with your life.

Tilapia ? These things grow like weeds and can be fed efficiently. Go ahead, good source of protein for your diet.

Honey? We need bees and they are an important pollinator for crops. Go nuts (just watch your sugar intake}

Almonds? Takes huge amounts of water to grow and exacerbates droughts in the areas they are farmed. Eat less of these.

Potatoes? Grow stupid easily in all sorts of conditions. Go nuts.

[–] markstos@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

We do need bees, but that doesn’t mean the honey industry is sustainable.

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/how-honey-industry-affects-environment

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I agree for the most part. I would like to point out that fish farms are actually very damaging to the ecosystems that they sit in. The excrement ends up dropping down in single locations, burying the seafloor in it. IIRC, this often leads to the oxygen levels in the water dropping, which further kills off the surrounding aquatic life.

EDIT: more context

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[–] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

I appeal to the Director of Veganism!

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