this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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[–] ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 72 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

If you’ve written 500k lines of code you were surely pretty confident about your decision.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 36 points 16 hours ago (1 children)
[–] ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (3 children)

I’m a developer, I don’t just continue doing things for years if it doesn’t make sense.

(If I’m the one making the decisions)

[–] mynameisigglepiggle@lemmy.world 15 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I have seen Devs do things for many years that make no sense

[–] unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz 7 points 12 hours ago

programmers just not a uniform bunch. not all of them blockchain grifters. fancy that.

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[–] mtchristo@lemm.ee 142 points 1 day ago (31 children)

Roller coaster Tycoon is one of a lifetime game.

Now everything is electron or react shit. Gone are the times of downloading fully featured software under 10mb.

[–] tomalley8342@lemmy.world 24 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

But the modern OpenRCT, written in an actual language, is better in every way.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 39 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Probably not as optimized though.

RCT could run on a toaster from the 90's (ok, maybe early 2000's) and looked amazing for the time.

OpenRCT can run on a toaster from the 2010's and looks great because of the timeless art style of the original.

It's still an incredible feat, though!

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[–] einlander@lemmy.world 130 points 1 day ago (1 children)
  • Programming was never meant to be abstract so far from the hardware.
  • 640k is enough ram for everybody.
  • The come with names like rust, typescript, go, and python. Names thought up by imbeciles.
  • Dev environments, environmental variables, build and make scripts, and macros, from the minds of the utter deranged.

They have played us for fools

[–] mynameisigglepiggle@lemmy.world 12 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I dabbled with making a fairly complex program for a microcontroller the other day and quickly hit the stack limit for a simple object.

It wasn't so much that it was a large object, but to provide flexibility I was amazed how fast I filled the memory.

I've done heaps with memory managed languages in the past but shit as soon as I had to think about what I was doing under the hood everything got hard af.

So serious question - does anyone have any good resources for a competent programmer, but with no clue whatsoever how to manage memory in a microcontroller space and avoid fragmentation etc?

I got it to work but I'm sure I did shit job and want to be better at it.

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[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 63 points 1 day ago (7 children)

try writing it it in Assembly

Small error, game crashes and takes whole PC with it burning a hole in the ground.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 48 points 1 day ago

Just don't make any errors. Not one.

[–] Gestrid@lemmy.ca 19 points 23 hours ago

It dis-assembled the computer!

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[–] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 121 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I love Roller Coaster Tycoon. It's absolutely crazy how he managed to write a game in a way many wouldn't even attempt even in those days, but it's not just a technical feat, it's a creative masterpiece that's still an absolute blast to play.

It still blows my mind how smoothly it gives the illusion of 3D and physics, yet it can run on almost anything.

OpenRCT brings a lot of quality of life and is often the recommended way to play today, but the original RCT will always deserve a spot on any "Best Games of All Time" list.

[–] dai@lemmy.world 14 points 23 hours ago

It was even ported to the original Xbox. I remember the total games file size being incredibly small - compared to most other titles on that system.

[–] Wilzax@lemmy.world 127 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Your game will actually likely be more efficient if written in C. The gcc compiler has become ridiculously optimized and probably knows more tricks than you do.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 45 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Especially these days. Current-gen x86 architecture has all kinds of insane optimizations and special instruction sets that the Pentium I never had (e.g. SSE). You really do need a higher-level compiler at your back to make the most of it these days. And even then, there are cases where you have to resort to inline ASM or processor-specific intrinsics to optimize to the level that Roller Coaster Tycoon is/was. (original system specs)

[–] kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

I might be wrong, but doesn't SSE require you to explicitly use it in C/C++? Laying out your data as arrays and specifically calling the SIMD operations on them?

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 3 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

There’s absolutely nothing you can do in C that you can’t also do in assembly. Because assembly is just the bunch of bits that the compiler generates.

That said, you’d have to be insane to write a game featuring SIMD instructions these days in assembly.

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[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I would bet that a modern compiler would just "do the right thing" but I've never written code in such a high performance fashion before.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yep but not if you write sloppy C code. Gotta keep those nuts and bolts tight!

[–] Wilzax@lemmy.world 29 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

If you're writing sloppy C code your assembly code probably won't work either

[–] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

Except everyone writing C is writing sloppy C. It's like driving a car, there's always a non-zero chance of an accident.

Even worse, in C the compiler is just waiting for you to trip up so it can do something weird. Think the risk of UB is overblown? I found this article from Raymond Chen enlightening: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20140627-00/?p=633

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[–] lugal@lemmy.world 143 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't know if everyone gets the reference: RollerCoaster Tycoon is in fact writing mostly in assembly to use the hardware more efficiently

[–] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 60 points 1 day ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (7 children)

It also makes it really portable which is a big part of why all the ports to modern systems are so close to the original. Obligatory OpenRCT2 shoutout.

edit: This is not entirely correct, I was mistaken about my understanding of some things. Still check out openrct2

[–] Faresh@lemmy.ml 45 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (3 children)

Writing it in assembly would make it pretty much the opposite of portable (not accounting for emulation), since you are directly giving instructions to a specific hardware and OS.

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[–] visor841@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

OpenRCT2 ditched assembly tho. They wrote it entirely in C++.

[–] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Sorry, two separate thoughts. Wasn’t saying open RCT used assembly just wanting to shout out the project.

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[–] misk@sopuli.xyz 164 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To be fair, assembly lines of code are fairly short.

/ducks

[–] timeslip1974@lemmy.world 39 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Back in the day we wrote everything in asm

[–] addie@feddit.uk 44 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Writing in ASM is not too bad provided that there's no operating system getting in the way. If you're on some old 8-bit microcomputer where you're free to read directly from the input buffers and write directly to the screen framebuffer, or if you're doing embedded where it's all memory-mapped IO anyway, then great. Very easy, makes a lot of sense. For games, that era basically ended with DOS, and VGA-compatible cards that you could just write bits to and have them appear on screen.

Now, you have to display things on the screen by telling the graphics driver to do it, and so a lot of your assembly is just going to be arranging all of your data according to your platform's C calling convention and then making syscalls, plus other tedious-but-essential requirements like making sure the stack is aligned whenever you make a jump. You might as well write macros to do that since you'll be doing it a lot, and if you've written macros to do it then you might as well be using C instead, since most of C's keywords and syntax map very closely to the ASM that would be generated by macros.

A shame - you do learn a lot by having to tell the computer exactly what you want it to do - but I couldn't recommend it for any non-trivial task any more. Maybe a wee bit of assembly here-and-there when you've some very specific data alignment or timing-sensitive requirement.

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[–] Fox@pawb.social 57 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I want to get off Mr. Bones' Wild Ride

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[–] IMNOTCRAZYINSTITUTION@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

petah please what's this mean

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 66 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The game Roller Coaster Tycoon was famously hand written in raw CPU instructions (called assembly language). It’s only one step removed from writing literal ones and zeros. Normally computers are programmed using a human-friendly language which is then “compiled” into CPU instructions so that the humans don’t have to deal with the tedium and complication of writing CPU instructions.

[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 20 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

To further emphasize this, I had an assembly course in university. During my first lab, the instructor told us to add a comment explaining what every line of assembly code did, because if we didn't, we would forget what we wrote.

I listened to his advice, but one day I was in a rush, so I didn't leave comments. I swear, I looked away from the computer for like 2 minutes, looked back, and had no idea what I wrote. I basically had to redo my work.

It is not that much better than reading 1s and 0s. In fact in that course, we spent a lot of time converting 1s and 0s (by hand) to assembly and back. Got pretty good at it, would never even think of writing a game. I would literally rather create my own compiler and programming language than write a game in assembly.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 13 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

I'm probably completely insane and deranged, but I actually like assembly. With decent reverse engineering software like Ghidra, it's not terribly difficult to understand the intent and operation of isolated functions.

Mnemonics for the amd64 AVX extensions can go the fuck right off a bridge, though. VCVTTPS2UQQ might as well be my hands rolling across a keyboard, not a truncated conversation from packed single precision floats into packed unsigned quadword integers.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Ah yes, there was this guy in our tech school class that used to code golf in assembly. Was a crack in math and analytics too, which might explain it somewhat. Well, everyone is different i guess.

[–] emergencybird@lemmy.world 9 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

I had a course in uni that taught us assembler on z/os. My advisor told me most students fail the course on the first try because it was so tough and my Prof for that course said if any of us managed to get at least a B in the course, he'd write us a rec letter for graduate school. That course was the most difficult and most fun I've ever had. I learned how to properly use registers to store my values for calculations, I learned how to use subroutines. Earned myself that B and went on to take the follow up course which was COBOL. You're not crazy, I yearn to go back to doing low level programming, I'm mostly doing ruby for my job but I think my heart never left assembler hahaha

[–] IMNOTCRAZYINSTITUTION@lemmy.world 18 points 23 hours ago (2 children)
[–] ericbomb@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

To send the point home even more, this is how in python you make a line of text display:

print("Hello World")

This is the same thing, in assembly (According to a blog I found. I can't read this. I am not build better.)

  org  0x100        ; .com files always start 256 bytes into the segment

    ; int 21h is going to want...

    mov  dx, msg      ; the address of or message in dx
    mov  ah, 9        ; ah=9 - "print string" sub-function
    int  0x21         ; call dos services

    mov  ah, 0x4c     ; "terminate program" sub-function
    int  0x21         ; call dos services

    msg  db 'Hello, World!', 0x0d, 0x0a, '$'   ; $-terminated message

But python turns that cute little line up top, into that mess at the bottom.

I like python. Python is cute. Anyone can read python.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

That assembly is for a DOS application. It would be more verbose for a modern Linux or Win32 application and probably require a linker script.

But python turns that cute little line up top, into that mess at the bottom.

Technically, not quite. Python is interpreted, so it's more like "call the print function with this string parameter" gets fed into another program, which calls it's own functions to make it happen.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 50 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Step 1: Begin writing in Assembly

Step 2: Write C

Step 3: Use C to write C#

Step 4: Implement Unity

Step 5: Write your game

Step 6: ???

Step 7: Profit

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago
[–] henfredemars@infosec.pub 30 points 1 day ago

Step 6 extort developers

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