this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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Germany: An honest broker for Middle East diplomacy? (www.dw.com)
submitted 11 months ago by sv1sjp@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.de
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[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Germany worked very hard over the past decades to lose all credibility in the Middle East. From tiptoeing around the Iraq invasion, over empty calls and threats during the earlier stages of the Syrian War, from making big announcements to uphold the JCPOA after the US broke the agreement and then just falling into US line until now where Germany remains unwilling to acknowledge the possibility of Israeli war crimes and continueing to support Israel "beyond all questions" as Scholz said.

Nobody in the Middle East takes Germany seriously and everybody knows, that in the end Germany will fall in line with whatever the US says, so any agreements made with Germany could just as well be made with the US instead.

[–] Sigmatics@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

As a German myself, you have to acknowledge that in terms of military/power politics, we're mostly just a US lapdog

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 6 points 11 months ago

I agree and find it tremendously stupid. I believe Europe would fare much better, if the EU integrated as a power bloc, keeping foreign interference out, be it US, Russian or Chinese. That includes finding compromise on building a unified foreign and defense policy.

Otherwise we'll be eroded in the foreseeable future, which has tremendous negative implications for the well being, safety and wealth of all Europeans.

[–] branchial@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago

Remember when the NSA under Obama was caught spying on Merkel's mobile? Most Germans don't.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sure... if you start at your deeply ingrained believe that Germany is always wrong, to then find "arguments" from there, it makes perfect sense that not supporting the US line in Iraq and supporting the US line in Israel are magicallly the same thing.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago

Germany was very much in line with the Iraq invasion. We didn't provide boots on the ground, but US army bases in Germany were used extensively for logistics and the German army was aiding in the defense of these bases as well as in surveillance operations. And Merkel, who became chancelor in 2005 was in favor of Germany also commiting troops to the Iraq invasion in 2003.

The Iraq invasion is the same in terms of international law like the russian invasion of Ukraine. An illegal foreign invasion. But instead of calling the US out on it, demanding sanctions or at least forbid and enforce no war efforts going through army bases in Germany, the government decided to let the US reign freely and even protect their back, while they are busy invading.

[–] RidderSport@feddit.de 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So, who would be an honest broker then? One that has the leverage and international standing to actually mediate between countries? No country in Arabia for sure, leaving European countries, the USA, China, India, Russia, South-Korea, Japan and Australia.

Some of these countries aren't at all interested in foreign disputes, some have their own agenda (looking at you Russia and China)

[–] branchial@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What would chinas agenda be? They're the ones with the best track record sofar in condemning the genocide and cracking down on Muslim rightwing extremism.

[–] RidderSport@feddit.de -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not sure islamist djihadism has any political affiliation.

Anyway, China never does anything without an agenda. Remember the "help" in SEA and Africa? Yeah, they gave money, sure, to exploit the countries, legally that is.

[–] brainrein@feddit.de 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Do you have any records on the harm China did to those countries so far?

[–] Alfonsio@feddit.de -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

China is also committing their own genocide against minorities, one of them the Uyghurs with concentration camps, forced sterilization and forbidding people to practice their religion.

As a Palestinian I can tell you that we’re not interested in exchanging Israeli occupation for Iranian, Russian or Chinese occupation.

Unfortunately I don’t know who’d be a real and credible ally. I feel strong support from many Latin American countries, the Irish, Scottish, South Africans. But do they have enough influence to broker something? I don’t think so

[–] branchial@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

The Uyghur genocide is a fabrication by anticommunist thinktanks from the US. Most notably it depends on the works of a single man, Adrian Zenz. There was no forced sterilization, people are free to practice their religion as long as it doesn't call for political revolution.