Someone please convince me why I should hate systemd because I still don't understand why all the hate exists.
this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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The idea as far as I can tell is that it's responsible for too many things and gives a massive point of failure.
Man, wait until these people hear about the filesystem and kernel.
hurd "exists"
Does it ? I thought it was never completed !
On the other hand, if you want a microkernel that does exist, thereโs Mach. But I donโt think you can replace Linux with it ๐
It's been two years away for the last 30 years.
Yeah, there's a Debian implementation of GNU/hurd. Debian recommend you run it in a VM
I won't bother. Sounds like hurd work.
That's GNU/Hurd thank you
yes mr stallman
The very existence of a defined kernel is an insult to the Linux philosophy
The Linux kernel (the part that gives Linux the name) is antithetical to Linux philosophy? I could understand it being contrary to GNU philosophy
In some ways I think the filesystem is philosophically the exact opposite of systemd
I can boot my system with an ext4 root, with a btrfs /home...or vice versa. Or add some ZFS, or whatever. The filesystem is (with the exception of some special backup schemes) largely independent of the rest of the system, despite being of core importance.
On the other hand, I can't change my init system (i.e., systemd) without serious, serious work.
It's also "infectious" software. The way systemd positions itself on the system, it can make it more difficult for software to be written in an agnostic way. This isn't all software, and is often more of a complaint by lower level software, like desktop environments.
https://catfox.life/2024/01/05/systemd-through-the-eyes-of-a-musl-distribution-maintainer/
This isn't a terrible summary of some of the aspects of it.
Another aspect is that when it was first developed, the lead on the project was exceptionally hostile to anyone who didn't immediately agree that systemd definitely should take over most of the system, often criticizing people who pointed out bugs or questionable design decisions as being afraid of change or relics of the past.
It's more of a social reason, but if people feel like the developer of a tool they're forced to use doesn't even respect their concerns, they're going to start rejecting the tool.
What do you expect from an init system? It's like saying my cpu is infectious because my computer depends on it
It's that it also decided to take over log management, event management, networking, DNS resolution, etc, etc.
If it were just an init system that would be perfectly portable. People were able to write software that way with sysv for years.
It's that in order to do certain low level tasks on a systemd system, you need to integrate with systemd, not just "be started by it". Now if a distro wants that piece of software, it needs to use systemd, and other pieces of software that want to be on that distro need to implement integration with systemd.
A dependency isn't infectious, but a dependency you can't easily swap out is, particularly if it's positioned near the base of a dependency tree.
Almost all of my software can run on x86 or arm without any issues beyond changing compiler targets. It's closer to how it's tricky to port software between Mac and Linux, or Linux and BSD. Targeting one platform entails significant, potentially prohibitive, effort to support another, despite them all being ostensibly compatible unix like systems.
log management, event management, networking, DNS resolution
and this is a bad thing? the distro can choose to not use it, but because every systemd distro uses it, it's a 1000x easier to implement it without needing to put a fuck tons of if-else's for every distro
My understanding is that some people are die hards to the software philosophy of "do one thing really well". systemd at the very least does many different things. These people would prefer to chain a bunch of smaller programs together to replicate the same functionality of systemd since every program in the chain fits the philosophy of "does one thing really well".
For me itโs 3 things
- Do one thing and do it well
- Everything is a file in Linux
- human readable logs
Systemd breaks all three of though by being monolithic and binary. It actually makes you have to jump through more hoops to do things in certain cases. I understand itโs a mindset shift but it really starts making it feel more like Windows with how it works and the registry and event log.
You forgot: use as many dependencies as you need. For example, my init system does not use xz-utils.
I don't see how systemd has anything like the Windows registry. At least its journals are leagues ahead of Windows event logs, I hate those things and the awful viewer they have.
I remember the clusterfuck that existed before systemd, so I love systemd.
People donโt like it because itโs declarative. It felt cool to be able to just put bash files into certain directories to have them executed on startup. That was elegant, in the sense of โeverythingโs a fileโ.
systemd is more of an api than a framework, so itโs a different design paradigm.
I hated systemd until I printed out the docs, for some coffee, and sat in a comfy chair to read them front to back. Then I loved it.
Mostly I hated it because I didnโt know how to do things with it.
Also, โjournalctlโ is kind of an ugly command. But really, who gives a fuck. Itโs a well-designed system.
And if a person absolutely must execute their own arbitrary code they can just declare a command to execute their script file as the startup operation on a unit.
Holly shit this has 700 upvotes
Stupidity is entertaining.
I think I would have preferred sudo apt-get remove --purge systemd
Yeah, some old habits never die.
You can switch seamlessly between systemd and openrc on gentoo. Although it might be worth using one of the debian derivatives in this user's case - not sure they should be messing with their system too much!
I removed and sold the wheels of my car, now it does not move.
He uninstalled systemd, now his computer is not doing systemd things anymore by his retelling. Seems like it worked fine. Yet he asks for a solution of a problem. Maybe he needs to state the problem.
This is like the Linux equivalent of deleting system32
Nah, more like deleting explorer.exe.
There's isn't really a Windows equivalent for this, as Windows doesn't give you control on this level.
It'd be as if you could delete services.msc but also the runner behind it.
I removed the transmission from my car but now it wonโt drive
That's what you get for transphobia my dude
I just shot my OS in the heart, why isn't it working?