Israeli and Zionist influence in the USA is a purposeful choice of the American government. It allows the American government to circumvent many domestic and international laws by allowing Israeli firms to do the spying and dirty work for them. Israel is essentially a rogue state that is entirely controlled by the American intelligence apparatus (and therefore, American capital). This has created a feedback loop of constantly reinforcing settler colonialism and American economic extraction of the Middle East. If America withdrew support to Israel, this feedback loop would cease and Israel would be greatly diminished or completely collapse.

Saying Israel controls America is simply wrong, stop saying this. I will remove your post. ✌️

edit: altered title for clarification and to avoid nonsensical semantic arguments

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The "Israel lobby" isn't just Israelis, is the thing. It's also the military industrial complex that relies on Israel as an infinite market for bombs and the huge cult of Protestant churches that support Israel as a crusader state and as a harbinger of the End Times.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I never said the relationship entirely one sided to Israel. I'm saying its not one sided at all. Its fraught with contraductions which drives lots of dynamics.

All of those factions both independently support Israel but are also cultivated and supported by Israel as a matter of national security. Its very symbiotic.

What is absolute bullshit is taking the maximally reductionist approach the mods are saying which is a complete puppet state of the US and Israel has no control over the US whatsoever.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't even think it's correct to even think of the US and Israel as separate entities. The Israel lobby is also a US lobby because Israel is the 51st state. Unlike Europe which has become essentially a neocolony for US export markets and is subservient to US interests, Israel is a second head on the same snake. They're one nation united by Manifest Destiny+Zionism.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Israel is not the 51st state. It is not the second head of the snake. It is a colony that has heavily invested in the politics of its sponsor empire to ensure its own safety. Basic master/slave dialectic.

What Israel has been doing for the past two years is absolutely not in the US's interests. Its been an international diplomatic disaster and a gigantic waste of resources and capital. What's happened is the US collectively forgot it's really the master in this relationship.

[–] ChestRockwell@hexbear.net 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This is pretty much it. Brandon being a husk really meant that what "normally" (and btw, would have still been horrible ethnic cleansing and barbarism) would have ended after a month or two of slaughter (e.g. Reagan) instead became a 2 year genocide. The degree to which "liberal" institutions in the US have de legitimized themselves over this is almost comical, and I think under the truth serum no US politician or figure of note (barring total freaks) would say that what's happened has been in the US' interests.

Indeed, the degree to which public speech has been made to "fit" the Israeli policy of genocide means that a lot of American institutions are now at a hinge point where they might be broken and transformed (if you want to be a little bloomer about something so horrible), but to what end of course is yet to be determined.

It's still (and always will be) socialism or barbarism.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

The declining empire faces two choices - peacefully decline over a long period or violently delay collapse until it is impossible.

What Israel has been doing is violently delaying the collapse of the empire, and they have been successful in the short-term even if the long-term won't be sustainable: Hezbollah was crippled by the pager terror attack, Assad fled Syria and they're in the process of turning it into another basket case like Libya, and Hamas's capacity to strike Israel has been degraded to nothing.

For now, Israel has reasserted its (and the US's) regional dominance. They had to demonstrate that their borders are secure because Israel's borders are also the US's borders, and this is directly connected to why the US is in the process of passifying its own border and deploying its own ethnic cleansing campaign that mirrors Israel. Israel bombing all of its neighbors was actually prelude to the US bombing boats in the Caribbean and preparing for war with Venezuela, and probably the rest of Latin America.

That's why it's useful to think of them as the same entity, Israel's behavior over the last two years is mirrored in the US's own behavior over the past year. The empire is reconfiguring itself in its decline, both heads of the snake are behaving the same.