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Another L for bigotry (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 2 days ago by Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works

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[–] H4rdStyl3z@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Nothing really predates classes. Classes existed since the first civilizations on Earth. You might be claiming it predates capitalism and that's definitely true but the ruling/working class divide is much older than capitalism.

[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I tried to discuss with ChatGPT and he suggested:

The San (Bushmen) of southern Africa believed in a creator deity and spirits of the dead.

Does this work as a counter example ?

[–] H4rdStyl3z@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Having a belief system is different from having a religion. Organized religion likely came about out of the need to legitimize power structures (otherwise, why the hell would the populace, which outnumber the ruling class, not fight back against their injustices?)

You are right that the San seem to have a classless (or, as wikipedia describes it, egalitarian) society. So it works as a counter-example to my claim that "nothing predates classes".

[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

otherwise, why the hell would the populace, which outnumber the ruling class, not fight back against their injustices

I don't really know, seems like something that "Political Sociology" treats. Experiments (like the popular Stanford prison experiment) were done on multiple frameworks, and suggest so many variables to explain division among people of same class. Restricting interpretation to religion (while there are so many belief systems) seems to me like oversimplification. Like We had secular states eventually, and it's not like classes vanished, or authoritarian regimes stopped being.

In my personal opinion, the division is the most interesting aspect of why people fail to do anything about their (our actually) miserable state. Because when you know that doing a protest leads you to receive sexual violence (rape using electricity&pipes) from the prison guard (who is actually from the same class as you), and the people for whom you did protest will just denounce you for doing "chaos" in the "peaceful" country, it makes sense that you wouldn't bother.
Here I'm thinking about the current Egyptian regime, which has a documented historical relationship with Soviet / Russian security methods (training, organization, approach of secret policing).

Why people are deceived by scholars of the palace? That would buffle me for eternity when The Prophet of Islam said:

"The most feared thing I fear for my Ummah — community — are the misguided leaders and corrupt scholars."

“When knowledge is sought for other than Allah, it will be removed from the people until only the scholars of evil remain.”

(Ibn Majah, al-Tabarani — meaning: those who use knowledge for power or wealth.)

“The best jihad is a word of truth before a tyrannical ruler.”

(Sunan al-Nasa’i, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi)

His grandson Also died refusing to accept the undemocratic rule of monarchy (in before there used to be a system of election after the Prophet's death): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husayn_ibn_Ali#Uprising
ps: the Wikipedia article isn't the best, but I just want to bring the revolutionary aspect of my religion to your attention.