this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2025
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Outside a train station near Tokyo, hundreds of people cheer as Sohei Kamiya, head of the surging nationalist party Sanseito, criticizes Japan’s rapidly growing foreign population.

As opponents, separated by uniformed police and bodyguards, accuse him of racism, Kamiya shouts back, saying he is only talking common sense.

Sanseito, while still a minor party, made big gains in July’s parliamentary election, and Kamiya's “Japanese First” platform of anti-globalism, anti-immigration and anti-liberalism is gaining broader traction ahead of a ruling party vote Saturday that will choose the likely next prime minister.

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[–] badgermurphy@lemmy.world -2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I mean at the scale at which it would be used. A small pilot program that has millions of eyes on it is not going to get undermined by bad actors because everyone is watching. It is good to create tests and pilot programs to try new economic and governance systems, but it is also important to remember that those are idealized lab conditions.

Also, consider the context of the discussion. Literally any system where money is put in the hands of those in poverty is going to immediately result in improved conditions for those people and increased local taxable economic activity. I could give them a UBI stipend, big tax rebates, increased wages, or even drop cash from planes. The point is that it is not necessarily the method that made the difference but the result. In this case the result is "get buying power to poor people", and any system that achieves that is going to be an economic and social good.

I'm just not convinced UBI is the safe way to do that. Its an inescapable fact that any government is going to have internal forces trying to undermine its protections to enrich themselves, so it is wise to remember that any government systems we come up with that are not made highly resistant to capture are only going to serve their intended purpose temporarily.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

In every study they also witness no significant drop in labor participation, and it always enriches the local community. People become more altruistic, less stressed and agitated, family relationships improve. It's good in pretty much every single way with no discernible downsides. Please look into more studies.

There isn't going to ever be a study that is universal until we implement it universally, so there's literally no way to test it in the way critics want, this argument is just baseless propaganda.

[–] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I'm sure that's true, but again, the positive outcomes you're describing are the result of the poor peoples' increased buying power and reduced economic uncertainty. I don't believe the specifics of HOW they got those things makes very much of a difference, if any. UBI is one way of many to do that.

And you are again correct: there is no way to "dry run" new social programs fully. You can only create small "labs" to partially test them, which is way better than nothing, but still leaves great unknowns. The only truly tested social and economic structures are the ones we've seen really used in the real world.

The fact that all past models have eventually failed doesn't necessarily mean they were bad, though. It means that they were inadequately protected and eventually were corrupted from within (not counting conquest, which I think is safe to say is outside the scope of this conversation).

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

How would you do the necessary task of redistributing the excess wealth of the rich to the poor in a way that leaves the rich in a position where they can't accumulate and abuse their wealth again?

[–] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

What I personally would do is:

  • implement a progressive income tax that scales to 100% at the highest tier.
  • include all income from all sources, including inheritance and capital gains (especially those in fact) in income such that it counts toward the progressive taxation model in the previous step.
  • implement a public fund for the retired and disabled paid into from the income tax base from all taxpayers (my country already has this called Social Security, but it is undermined by corrupt tax policy).

That isn't the hard part, though. Like i said, there are a ton of solutions to THAT problem that can work, including yours. The really hard problem is that I am not sure how to protect a government from allowing officials elected under false pretenses from dismantling the solution for disingenuous reasons, like is happening throughout the entire developed world in real time right now, despite their varied social, economic, and governmental structures.

ETA: I would also include people with debilitating mental health as among the disabled for purposes of eligibility for the social fund aid.