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Keep it going folks, throw out the bosses, seize the means of production! Another world is possible
Greece is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. They don't respect driving laws. They openly throw trash in the streets. They smoke right in front of "Please don't smoke here" signs. The Greek politicians are completely corrupt. But these Greek politicians didn't fall from a sky. They are a reflection of Greek society.
Why do I say this ? Because my country faces similar issues.
Some cultures are just fucked.
I like how you cast everyday breakdown of social fabric as “corruption.” We usually only apply that word to leaders but you’re right it can pervade every level.
For pedantry's sake, these aren't examples of corruption. In order for it to be "corruption," there has to be someone in a position of power who is misusing their power.
definition
[0] "Corruption is a form of dishonesty or a criminal offense that is undertaken by a person or an organization that is entrusted in a position of authority to acquire illicit benefits or abuse power for one's gain." (wikipedia)).Some examples of corruption would be:
At the very least, the word can be used figuratively to describe the decay and breakdown of social fabric. Personally I find it refreshing to hear an entire society held accountable, not just a few mustache twirling villains at the top.
That’s not just pedantry, that’s unnecessarily narrow-minded. Ever heard of the corrupted heart? According to your definition, that’s an impossibility, unless the heart belongs to someone in authority, or something, I guess.
The point is, there is more than a single interpretation of things, and there is not a singular definition of corruption. Anyone can be corrupted, and giving examples that show that lawlessness permeates every level of society is a great way of showing that corruption is likely endemic in the culture.
In the same vein, it's worth noting that government =/= culture...
Mate, I've lived and worked in several countries in Europe and come from a country - Portugal - which in many ways is culturally very similar to Greece, at least judging by conversations I had with Greek friends and colleagues over the years.
In my experience and view, Politics in general, including government, are definitelly the result of what a society considers "normal" and this doesn't apply to just the Southern European countries but also in my own experience to Western and Northern European ones.
Strictly speaking and as you say they are not the same, it's more of one being a reflection of the other: what politicians get away with reflects society's idea of "normal" and things like the cultural view on how strictly people should follow rules: in a country where the idea that "following rules is for suckers" is widespread, Politicians too will not tend to "stay within the rules" with the powers they've been entrusted with.
So for example, Corruption is Portugal is IMHO the natural reflection of a culture where Cronyism is widespread and pretty much standard all over the place (and, if you think about it, the Moral distance from "trading favours with paying strangers using the power entrusted to you" to "trading favours with friends using the power entrusted to you" is a lot less than the Moral distance to "thinking one has the responsability to not abuse power entrusted to oneself for one's own gain directly or indirectly") and the Law is seen as indicative rather than a set of boundaries that shouldn't be crossed (except when it comes to violence).
Interestingly and paradoxically, when things do start to change, acceptance of Corruption falls and and the fight against Corruption improves, the Perception of Corruption goes up because there are many more people being caught and convicted for Corruption and that ends up in the News, so it looks like there is more Corruption than before due to more News about it, when it's actually the opposite.
In Soviet Russia, means of production seize you!
Wait no not like that
Once "the people" seize the means of production, how will it be run & organized? We might need some people to coordinate between other people. What will these coordinators be called? And what if they abuse their positions? We might need some people that keep coordinators accountable, that audit their behavior, we can call them auditors....
If you aren't getting where I am going with this, I will just say that while your sentiment might make sense to you, this is a real problem for you to think about. Seizing the means of production is meaningless without a mechanism by which to run it. As soon as you trust other human beings with that ability, you create another class with authority, and thus, the road leads back to exactly where you are.
AI will not fix this because it is centralized compute trained on oppressive data. Perhaps if the data centers were publicly owned and the data was vetted, there would be a better chance, but more likely? It would be AI with human oversight....and yes, same problem again. If a human oversight committee exists, that is once again a human authority position that can be abused. And it doesn't matter because the planet has foolishly relinquished control of compute power to a tiny minority.
While I believe we are slated for doom (that isn't so bad, there are much better realities than this one anyway), I'd at least like to see a tiny fraction of intelligent resistance. This has got to be the most disappointing apocalypse I've ever witnessed. All the tools are clearly laid out and we've collectively chosen to be miserable instead.
Stop repeating the pattern. Find a new way.
I was with you for the first half, but then you went off the rails. Anyone who seriously brings up AI in the discussion for what to do after the revolution is completely deluded. You act like it's a viable strategy with some issues, but really it'd be immediately worse than even Trump. Day 1 it'd hallucinate a war and try to release nukes around the world. As for the "better realities," we only get 1 planet and 1 reality. To try to bury your head in the sand with some dream that an alternate reality version of us is doing okay is nothing but a cop out. Maybe another version of our planet is doing well, but we're responsible for this one - it's our duty to protect it.
Yes, when we overthrow the government, we'll need to enact a new government to replace it, and yes, eventually that government will become corrupt and need overthrowing, too. When there exists a position of authority over others, evil people will inevitably worm their way in, but nevertheless, authority is necessary to have a functioning society. Governments are like clothes - you have to change them out every once in a while, ideally before they start to reek of filth.
Did you read what I said about AI? I don't think so, given your response. To simplify, as I skipped some steps, I was addressing some people who've thought about the problem slightly more than an iota. Some think AI systems that govern over humans could help address the human corruptibility / hierarchy problem. It does not.
There are an infinite set of realities. You can see them for yourself, but something tells me you'll continue onward in your lovely little cage.
Have a nice 3-dimensional day :)