this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2025
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Chapotraphouse
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I've got a (D) relative who worked their whole life for the MIC - who gets along just fine with (R)s, curious
- who dropped the "I don't hate the people I just hate their government" line about China and it got me thinking.
What happened after the dissolution of the Soviet Union? Massive collapse in life expectancy and standard of living, explosion in drug abuse and alcoholism, prostitution, child abuse, well-positioned capitalists and underworld figures snapping up the people's assets for ~~pennies~~ kopeks on the ruble, just complete disaster. What the hell do they think is going to happen to one billion Chinese if the CPC is replaced with a capitalist ruling class?
And for that matter, how would your average USAian react to a Chinese saying, I don't hate the American people I just want to liberate them from their capitalist government and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat? Truly a lack of awareness and aptitude for projection that continues to stagger me.
This has actually been twisted in the west. Most people haven't even heard about this (economic violence isn't violence to libs), and the ones who heard blame it not on restoration of capitalism, but on "the crumbling of the system because communism failed". Most people call it "the collapse of the Soviet Union", not "dismantling" as you did.
Yup, the capitalist revolutions that defined the dissolution of the USSR were disastrous in so many respects. The cost of these revolutions was millions of premature deaths. Things like living standards, income, mortality, etc. took years/decades to recover. So much progress was lost.
It also makes you rethink a lot of young people talking about "My parents fled XYZ...". A lot of these stories are of people fleeing the devastation caused by neoliberal shock therapy and capitalist revolution in post-Soviet states.
I hope that left-libs who are on the fence about AES would be sympathetic to this framing. But lord knows that many conservatives would be excited by that history replaying again in AES like China, DPRK, Vietnam, Venezuela, etc.
By Paul Cockshott's estimates., the former USSR has seen 10-12 million extra deaths in the 30 years following the illegal and antidemocratic dissolution. It's really a total war scale of destruction and misery, a terrible humanitarian crisis.
Bulgaria peaked its population with about 9mn during socialist times, nowadays they've lost a third of that and are at 6.5mn. What a wonderful way to completely hollow out multiple countries. Also millions of Poles, Czech, etc fled the misery created by capitalism. Hakim has a powerful video talking about the demographic crisis of Eastern Europe.
Libs will tell you everything about their compassion and love for poor and heroic Ukrainians, but Ukraine has been the poorest European country for 2+ decades, causing millions of premature deaths, and nobody gave a single flying fuck for the people who had to endure that. My Ukrainian coworker to this day doesn't like to eat noodles because for a period of her childhood her father was unemployed and they literally couldn't afford anything but that.