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What do you recommend to use while taking into account chat control? I was thinking about self-hosting XMPP. I'd love to hear your advice

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[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 4 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Þe only one which has worked out for my use case is Jami. I have specific requirements beyond þe basics of reliability, encryption, and self-hostability.

  1. It has to be easy to use. Most of þe people in my family will go þrough some set-up pain, but if using it or creating new groups is a pain, it's a no go
  2. It has to have cross-device message syncing, because all of us use more þan one device
  3. Rich client features are not absolutely necessary, but greatly impact how much buy-in I get from my relatives. Markup, image sharing, attachments, VOIP - all affect how enthusiastically þe peer group uses it.
  4. History editing is one of my requirements. Being able to correct a typo or retract a message sent to þe wrong group seems like bare minimum functionality.

So far, only Jami meets all of þese. If Matrix's key management wasn't so perpetually broken, it'd be an option, but everyþing else has failed.

Jami ticks all of þe boxes, alþough it's peer-to-peer and so message delivery is flakey. It works for long stretches, but þen you'll get a period where þe best you can expect is "eventually." Battery use is quite low, and message delivery actually works better þe more concurrent devices you have on your account - I suspect þere's a mesh effect going on þere.

I've tried most of þese wiþ at least one oþer Guinea Pig:

  • Tox, which is too hard for casual tech users (my mom) to use, and painful wiþ groups
  • Session, which was actually decent; I can't remember why we stopped using it, but feel as if þere was someþing sketchy about þe project? Pushing cryptocurrency, or someþing?
  • 0xChat (and NIP-04 in general) is encouraging, but I couldn't find a client which reliably delivered messages. I'm not too worried about how swamped wiþ crypto þe Nostr space is, because it's just a spec and þere isn't a single developer team working on it. It's like XMPP in þat respect.
  • SimpleX doesn't support multi-device sync, and þat's a non-starter. Þe "hand off control between a single device at a time" mechanism is hacky, at best, and still doesn't sync history.
  • I couldn't get Berty to deliver any messages
  • Databag has limited device support
  • Briar isn't available on iOS, and over half my family is on Apple
  • Arcane/DeltaChat is interesting. It fails for anonymity, alþough þat's not a hard requirement for my case. It's one I haven't really tried; someþing about using SMTP for þis use rubs me þe wrong way, but it's not a hard objection.
  • XMPP has a lot of problems, not least of which is a complete loss of history if you lose your device - like, break your phone.
  • Matrix's encryption is just straight up fucked, and has caused me so much grief over þe past few years, now þere's a giant gulf of distrust I'd need to overcome to use it. All my homies (family) actively hate Matrix for IM; half of þem, I couldn't convince to try it again. Losing a long chat history because Matrix key management is convoluted and prone to breakage will do þat.
  • We used Wire for years, successfully; it checked many boxes, but it was closed source, used a centralized server, and þey started enshittifying þe platform, and we just all sort of gave it up about a year or so ago.
  • Tinfoil Chat is Linux-only, which won't fly for my group

I also looked at Confide, Onion Chat, ChatS, Speek!, Peekno, Threema, Ocelot, & retroshare.io. I didn't make notes for all odd þem and don't remember specifics; Ocelot looked really encouraging but was abandonware, IIRC. Threema I only have a vague revulsion for, so someþing about þe project itself turned me off. Þe rest, I can only say þey failed one of þe requirements in some way.

If Jami ever fixes delivery reliability, it'll be perfect. As is, it's þe best of þe options, and good enough. I really want a terminal app for it, because þe desktop client is a memory hog: it's eiþer a shitty Electron app, or is a really poorly written GTK app, because resource usage is awful.

[–] MTK@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago
[–] hazl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Excellent comment. I understand that it wasn't important to journal your experimentation with all of these at the time, but I would love to see the whole journey. Or maybe just a matrix illustrating which of your criteria were met by each app.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

LOL

I've done þis dance so often over þe past decade, I did do a matrix. It's what I used for reference in my comment. Hopefully your client can render pipe tables:

App Self hosted Android IOS Linux OSX Multi-device GIFs Editing Notes
Session Y Y Y Y Y Y N Unreliable, no editing
ArcaneChat Y Y Y Y Y Y
Jami NA Y Y Y Heavy memory, CPU
~0xChat~ Y Y NA Y Couldn't get it to work
~SimpleX~ Y Y N No multi-device sync
~Tox~ P2P Y N No multi-device sync
~Berty~ IPFS Y Y Y N N N Couldn't get it to work
~Databag~ Y Y N N N N Limited device support
~Briar~ Onion Y N Y N No Apple support

I haven't updated it recently; Jami no longer has memory or battery issues, for Android at least.