this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2025
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[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Yes, as soon as 99%+ of the users aren't on the same server. That's the bottom line. We can argue theory all day but it doesn't change the implications of centralization.

Over the last few weeks hundreds of people have moved their accounts to the new blacksky.app PDS, and they're running an early version of their app at blacksky.community

I've spent...quite a bit of time intentionally looking for alternative ATP servers and this is the first time I've heard of this. And I'm balls deep in this stuff. I even run my own AP server. So I'd say it's so obscure as to be meaningless.

99.99% of the users are still on infrastructure run by Bluesky PBC...but looking at all the progress and activity, it sure seems to me that's in the process of changing.

My guy. LOL. No. Just no. It isn't.

so many people in the Fediverse present the fact that 99.99% of Bluesky users are still using infrastructrure run by Bluesky PBC as if it's a gotcha

I mean...yeah? It is.

They just prefer to invest their time and energy in working to improve the situation

And we prefer to invest our time and energy into supporting an actually decentralized protocol.

rather than arguing about the semantics of "decentralization."

At what point was anyone arguing semantics?

So can we please stop arguing about this already?

Yes, please, go ahead.

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

Alternate ATP servers:

  • altq.net: PDS
  • app.wafrn.net: pds and appview
  • atproto.africa: alt relay
  • zeppelin.social: alt appview
  • blacksky.app: alternate PDS
  • blacksky.community: alternate appview
  • witchcraft.systems: alt pds
  • sprk.so: alt pds, plans on hosting an appview
  • ~~gander.social~~ https://gandersocial.ca/ : canadian PDS, appview in plans
  • arankwende.com: open-signup PDS
  • atproto.hotwaru.com: open-signup PDS
  • bsky.aenead.net: open-signup PDS
  • casjay.social: open-signup PDs
  • deer.social: alt-client

Honourable mention to AppViewLite which lets you easily and cheaply host an appview yourself. I can run it on my laptop easily. It doesn't depend on relays, it can crawls PDSes directly.

Plus the many other instances here: https://github.com/mary-ext/atproto-scraping

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago
[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

99% isn't the threshold. I'd say like 25% or less

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Doesn't LW control ~30% of the lemmyverse?

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

It controls ~30% of the threadiverse, then.

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 1 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Where is that number coming from?

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

My head. Lemmy.world has 15,000 (roughly) monthly active users, the threadiverse has roughly 60,000 active users,

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 2 points 20 hours ago
[–] Ludrol@szmer.info 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

15.5/36.3 is 43%

Data from Lemmy.world sidebar and fedidb.com

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Well 25% is very strict, pretty sure mastodon.social is more than that for the Fediverse (I do wish other instances would grow faster to catch up)

But yea anything higher than 50% is kinda missing the point, ideally they would close signups and suggest people signup on alternative instances instead

Majority share is too powerful

join-lemmy.org actually hides any instance that's over 30% of Lemmy https://github.com/LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site/blob/main/src/shared/components/instances.tsx#L451-L456

[–] airportline@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

ideally they would close signups and suggest people signup on alternatives instead

Is that what you would actually expect Bluesky to do if they were committed to decentralization?

[–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Bluesky traded good user distribution for growth.

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 7 points 1 day ago

I said "ideally", but they probably would've done a lot of things differently if they were committed to decentralization