this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2025
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chapotraphouse

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I truly hope he doesn't turn out the way I think he will turn out. I know we have a lot of people on here who love Mamdani, and I'm not trying to pick a fight. But goddamn, he's not beating the allegations these days.

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[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

so not supporting the democrats is doomerism now?

[–] MemesAreTheory@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I'm tempted to read your comment as unproductive and pithy, but assuming some amount of good faith (which you seem to be denying your comrades who may reasonably disagree with you) I'll give it a decent response.

It's not very normal from a "be normal" standpoint in terms of electoralism as a strategy among genuine comrades. Of course the democratic party shouldn't be supported outright or unqualified, but some tendencies haven't given up on entryism and, no matter how fruitless you or I think that is, are pursuing it as a genuine strategy in an attempt to increase the platform and legitimacy of socialism in the US. Continuing to cast unfair characterizations on those efforts and the most visible example of such efforts BEFORE the person has even been elected is wrecker shit at worst and bordering on sectarianism, or doomerism at best and catastrophizing before having the empirical evidence required to make a decent judgement.

Turning Mamdani into an ongoing struggle session isn't going to to do shit except make comrades who are working within the DSA resentful of you for your ultra sounding ass throwing out comments from the peanut gallery without visibly putting in work yourself. You don't like Mamdani or his association with the democratic party outright, fine, whatever, we've all heard that by now. Continuing to point to every picture as a damning indictment of entryism before the candidate has even gotten into office is declaring defeat too early on purely epistemic grounds, though, and calling the experiment a failure before it's concluded. That doesn't seem particularly helpful to anyone to me. I notice you didn't engage with that point, the crux of that comment's argument, at all. So hopefully recentering that can help you stay on focus for more productive dialogue with your comrades.

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I notice you didn't engage with that point, the crux of that comment's argument, at all.

i disagree with the core premise of entryism. it doesnt matter to me if Mamdani is super principled as an individual politician or whatever (i actually do like him), he is still part of the democratic party and I don't think electing dems is a good strategy to build socialism.

Turning Mamdani into an ongoing struggle session isn't going to to do shit except make comrades who are working within the DSA resentful of you for your ultra sounding ass throwing out comments from the peanut gallery without visibly putting in work yourself.

and also, the DSA does have factions that want to break with the dems, its not like an established line in the org. second, you have no idea what kind of work i've put in, i dont think its a fair critique on an anonymous forum. if i say something that's counter to real experience, sure call me out, but i would say from experience that this constant obsession with electing "good dems" leads to nowhere.

[–] MemesAreTheory@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago

Well then, we don't even disagree. I don't have a dog in this fight, I just see how continuing to cast aspersions on comrades who ARE committed to this intervention could be seen as grating given the lack of epistemic justification. I think we owe those comrades critical support in the mean time, not snide derision.