News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
You definitely got fed a load. Boris Yeltsin had to shell Parliament into submission to prevent himself from being removed. A year later, Russians were in Chechnya doing what Americans would repeat in Iraq ten years later.
Like, what on earth do you think Interior Ministry Order 870 was in response to? Were all those civil protests and demonstrations of the 90s getting a twenty one gun salute?
Then you should fucking know better
You didn't yet specify where.
Correct, that happened in year 1993, which is the reason for me having it as a separation point.
No. First Chechen war was a failure with many human losses, newspapers and TV (including state channels) and associations of soldiers' mothers and such were howling both at the operation itself and at the losses, and it ended with Khasavyurt accord signed by general Lebed on Russia's behalf (he was quite popular, BTW, and held pacifist enough views, being himself a participant of the war in Afghanistan ; later became a politician and died in a helicopter crash).
If anything, First Chechen war showed that Russian society does still have some spine.
And the Second Chechen war happened after a few people (one can say politicians) visible since late 80s were killed, and power balance changed.
That doesn't change the fact that censorship existed in the USSR, freedom of movement inside the country was limited, and political parties other than the CPSU didn't exist. While roughly between 1989 and 2012 Russian society had freedom of thought at least.
It's year 2002, when Putin still hasn't destroyed his (oligarchic, and honestly now those people don't seem much nicer) opposition, and federal troops in the Northern Caucasus were in some regards similar to an occupying force. I think it was in response to that, but also, as you might have noticed, these people don't need formalities to get something done.
I don't know what you're trying to say. If you are somehow imagining USSR before breakup as something like the USA of today, just communist, I'm afraid it was not. It was a country almost entirely living in "safe poverty", where you wouldn't generally starve, but other than that it was pretty depressive. I mean, you should watch some Soviet movie classics, even the more cheerful kind will educate you on that.
The 90s were a failure of trying to fix that thing when it stopped working. Yes, it was a catastrophe, but the USSR before it wasn't some heaven on earth or even a good place to live. Take Chikatilo (the serial murderer) - one suspect before him was tortured for admission of guilt and executed.
You're being deliberately obtuse.
Imagine saying this about Ukraine pre-invasion.
I'm being patient, trying to help you understand. Not accepting bare statements is not being obtuse.
This comparison is delusional. USSR was already ruined by 1989. The question was only where to go from there. You are comparing some of its systems conclusively crashing to a war.
What happened in 1991 is that there was narrow balance on the consensus on a new union treaty, but the GKChP coup attempt (real or not) shattered that balance, allowing leaders of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus to sign its dissolution just so, and nobody protested.
They didn't have the mandate for that, but the Soviet society in general was shaken by those few days of tanks on the streets and jammers being turned on first in a few years. Nobody wanted a totalitarian state back (after "glasnost" policy).
So - before the coup attempt most of the union voted for its preservation (meaning a new union treaty, leaving things as they are wasn't an option, simply because nothing worked). After the coup you'd be hard pressed to find anyone supporting its preservation.
Before the coup and during it the center also soiled its pants by trying to solve all ethnic conflicts with similar elegance (enraging locals, committing some crimes against civilians, then fucking right off) - them stopping the pogroms in Baku was probably the only bright spot (it's officially a day of mourning for Azeris, they call it the Black September, and western politicians too mourn those poor looters raping and burning Armenians all over the city, and condemn Soviet troops ; BTW, I mentioned Lebed before - he was the commander of that force).
So in 1991 Yeltsin was a hero (unfortunately).
Now between 1991 and 1993 the "shock therapy" and privatization happened, conducted in such a way that by 1993 like half of the populace thought that it's been enough. The other half kinda thought the same, but was more frightened of something like united communist and neo-Nazi reaction, thus supporting Yeltsin.
It has to be clarified that in the crisis of 1993 the parliament really did consist of mostly communists and neo-Nazis, a really weird hybrid. While Yeltsin's supporters seemed "normal", and just for some liberal democracy.
The constitutional court ruled that both presidential and parliament snap elections must be held, thus rotating both parties of the crisis, but then Yeltsin, as you've mentioned, shelled the parliament building and had his way.
And like since 1993 to the 1996 election there was outrage over such a resolution of it all, and the 1996 election saw first widespread use in Russia of USA-style political campaigning, and there were protests, and and many people thought the election was stolen and Zyuganov actually won, but Zyuganov removed himself from that debate, so it was Yeltsin's victory in the end.
Then, yeah, that clan sort of cemented their rule (and power in media) enough to successfully present Putin, well, as the second best thing after communists winning instead of Yeltsin in 1996, playing on resentment, and thus he won his only real election.
The reason I've described all this is to explain that it was a gradual process, not some immediate apocalypse. And yes, in 1991 it went the wrong way, and in 1993 again the wrong way. But in the 1989 it didn't, and, say, when they talk about looting and ruin of Soviet industries - that too was happening gradually. Many of those actually stopped existing in the 00s, surviving 90s and even functioning well enough.
And about level of life - I don't think you realize how much higher it became in the 00s in Russia as compared to both 90s and Soviet 80s.