this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2025
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Explain Like I'm Five

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I've been reading a lot about massive stellar objects, degenerate matter, and how the Pauli exclusion principle works at that scale. One thing I don't understand is what it means for two particles to occupy the same quantum state, or what a quantum state really is.

My background in computers probably isn't helping either. When I think of what "state" means, I imagine a class or a structure. It has a spin field, an energy_level field, and whatever else is required by the model. Two such instances would be indistinguishable if all of their properties were equal. Is this in any way relevant to what a quantum state is, or should I completely abandon this idea?

How many properties does it take to describe, for example, an electron? What kind of precision does it take to tell whether the two states are identical?

Is it even possible to explain it in an intuitive manner?

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[–] FrenziedFelidFanatic@pawb.social 3 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I think my answer here does a disservice to your last two questions, but they’re pretty interesting, so I’d like to try answering them here. That being said, I believe a proper explanation would require a greater understanding of quantum field than I currently have.

Regardless, let’s start with

How many properties does it take to describe, for example, an electron?

Wavefunctions are typically described using just two parameters: position and time. That being said, the specifics of a theory will often add two more ‘parameters:’ spin and charge.

For every position in space and time, there are four possible electrons:

Negatively charged with up spin,

Negatively charged with down spin,

Positively charged with up spin, and

Positively charged with down spin

Now, there are a couple conservation laws that prevent the charge of an electron from changing, so we split these four into two categories based on charge, and call members of the latter (positively charged) category ‘positrons.’

There are no such conservation laws preventing an electron from changing its spin, however, so it’s not worth calling the up and down spin electrons separate particles;^1^ we instead keep track of an electron’s up-ness and down-ness by sticking a two-component vector into the wavefunction.

So, to clarify, you should only need to know the electron’s position and spin at a given time to know its state.

Or, rather, knowing these will give you the local value of the wavefunction of the electron, which is defined at all points in space, at all points in time, and for both possible spins.

This wavefunction describes the state that the particle is in, and it is the solution to our Schrödinger equation.

The magic of quantum mechanics is that there are much fewer possible wavefunctions than you might expect for a given system.^2^

In many cases, we can actually label each of the allowed wavefunctions with one (or a handful of) quantum number(s),^3^ which will be integers. The energy (n) and angular momentum (j) are common quantum numbers.

So we can describe states with quantum numbers while the actual wavefunctions associated with these states describe the electrons that occupy them via spin, position, and time.

This means that when our Pauli exclusion principle requires different wavefunctions for different electrons, it is also enforcing that they occupy different states i.e. have different quantum numbers.

But then how does spin let you have two electrons in the same state? It doesn’t

If two electrons have ‘different spins,’ it actually means they have different wavefunctions (remember! Wave-funcs are functions of spin) and are thus in different states. In the absence of a magnetic field, however, up-spin and down-spin are effectively identical in all other aspects, so you will often see that which is described as one state is actually two.

Now for your other question:

What kind of precision does it take to tell whether the two states are identical?

None!

States are quantized, meaning they are described by a (typically finite) set of integer-valued quantum numbers, and if any of the qn’s are different, so too are the states.

It is worth noting that two different quantum states will have zero expected positional overlap, so you can say that they are in different places even if both wavefunctions are defined everywhere.

That being said, the mathematically-enforced inability of electrons to occupy the same state will certainly look like an equal and opposite to any force that energetically favors an already-occupied state… which is why you can pick up your pencil.

Now, if you start to apply a whole lot of pressure on the system, you start to change the states that solve the Schrödinger equation in the first place. So your neutron star isn’t infinitely stable.

^1^ spin can also mix while charge can’t, so an electron can be partially up and partially down, but not partially negative and partially positive. This is really just a consequence of the (in)ability to switch between states, but I figured I would mention this for clarity.

^2^ if you let some infinities be ‘fewer than others

^3^ technically, any linear combination of states can constitute an allowed wavefunction (this is superposition), but, this will constrain the set of allowable wavefunctions for other electrons, meaning the total number of allowed wavefunctions remains the same.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Is this calculated by assuming the wavefunction is static? Like, maybe a steady-state eigenfunction of the system's evolution with an eigenvalue that's 1, or another root of unity.

[–] FrenziedFelidFanatic@pawb.social 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is this calculated by assuming the wavefunction is static?

Typically sorta? The way the Schrödinger equation is typically solved is by taking linear combinations of eigenfunctions (of the Hamiltonian) and making them time-dependent with a time-dependent phase out front.

The eigenfunctions are otherwise time-independent since you can usually make the Hamiltonian be time independent.

If the problem is easier to think about with a time-dependent Hamiltonian, you can use the Heisenberg formulation of quantum mechanics, which makes the wavefunctions static and lets the operators evolve in time. This can be helpful in a number of situations—typically involving light.

Like, maybe a steady-state eigenfunction of the system's evolution with an eigenvalue that's 1, or another root of unity.

I assume you mean eigenfunction of the Hamiltonian here, but the eigenvalue associated with that eigenfunction would be the energy of the state, so you can’t really make it be a root of unity (it must, in fact, be fully real since energy is an observable)

[–] CanadaPlus 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I'll admit, I only have a fuzzy understanding of even the basics of Hamiltonian mechanics. I understand quantum computing, though, and that evolution of a circuit is a unitary (linear) operator/matrix. So, wouldn't continuous evolution be a one-parameter Lie subgroup of the unitary operators over your Hilbert space? Any eigenvalue would have to be a root of unity, with the exact one corresponding to rate of change in phase, because otherwise you end up with probabilities not summing to 1.

I think it would be analogous to the normal modes for a classical standing wave, which are also used as examples of an eigenfunction.

Maybe the more relevant question is if nonequilibrium, dynamical quantum systems can also be said to be quantised in the same way. Can they?

If the problem is easier to think about with a time-dependent Hamiltonian, you can use the Heisenberg formulation of quantum mechanics, which makes the wavefunctions static and lets the operators evolve in time. This can be helpful in a number of situations—typically involving light.

That sounds wild!

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