One can only abolish the commodity form in totality through global Socialism. Socialism's beginning is the transition from Capitalism to Communism, that existence in which there are no longer classes, the state, or money. The fact that Socialist states governed by Communist parties have not as of yet achieved that global system is not an indication of a betrayal of Marxism or an indication of not being Socialist by any measure.

Production based on use-value as the basis of economic organization can only truly exist when commodity production has been erased, and this can only be achieved through mass development of the productive forces and the lack of outside pressures like sanctions or threats of war from Capitalist nations. This means they have not yet achieved Communism, but have achieved Socialism, hence why no Socialist country has ever considered itself to have achieved Communism.

[+] zloubida@sh.itjust.works -7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You just wrote, in other words:.“It can't be socialism before the global revolution but that doesn't mean it's not socialism”. Man, even Lenin called his system state capitalism… You're not serious behind your big words, let's stop here.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 days ago

I said it cannot be Communism without global Socialism. Socialism can be had in one country, as each country can individually begin that transition towards a fully publicly owned and planned economy on its own. Socialism is not defined by the total and complete absence of all commodity production, such a definition means Socialism can never exist as by the time commodity production is totally abolished, so too would the state, class, and money. It would be a jump straight from Capitalism to Communism definitionally, despite this "Capitalism" being overwhelmingly dominated by public ownership and planning under a state run by the working class.

As for Lenin, he called the NEP specifically "State Capitalist." The economy under the NEP is qualitatively different from the later Soviet economy, but even by the NEP control of the state was in the hands of the proletariat, and large firms and key industries were under the thumb of public ownership. The NEP is quite similar to the economy of the PRC, it's a relatively early stage in Socialism, but distinctly and qualitatively different from Capitalism, when the Bourgeoisie is in control of large firms, key industries, and the State.

I think it's very clear that I am serious behind my words. I take Marxist theory fairly seriously, and have answered all of your quips in detail. More than anything, it seems like you're insulting me to give yourself a cheap out of this conversation, rather than admitting that you were simply wrong about Marxism, which isn't a sin at all. We all learn at different rates and different times, it's better to confront our own misconceptions and grow than it is to deny the necessity for furthering our own knowledge.