this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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A Boring Dystopia
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Do you think if Hamas dissappear tomorrow, those who throw garbage will stop?
The reverse. If the garbage throwers stopped, if the Israeli state ensured that Palestinians were treated humanely and were ensured civil rights (say in accordance with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights) then Palestinians would have no need for revolutionary organizations like Hamas or Hezbollah. But so long as the Israeli state disregards the suffering of Palestinians, so long as Israelis are allowed to commit violence against Palestinians, so long as the IDF seeks to massacre Palestinians, there will be need for militants to fight against them, and so Hamas and Hezbollah will find cause and find recruits among the friends and family slain in Israel's name.
The thing is we all know this. This is COIN 101 material from two to four centuries ago. And short of the threat of nuclear holocaust, humans historically are eager to hate more than they are willing to do what is right to create and preserve peace. Netanyahu and the IDF have demonstrated to be no different, even when the US warned them of its own hard-learned lessons in Fallujah. Gaza is proving to be even worse than was predicted.
And why do you think they hate Jews?
Because of how Israelis treat them.
That conflict may have lasted 70 years, but those citizens certainly haven't.
For the last 2500 years, the Jews have been the bad guys. That's why they're worthy of hatred
Speaking of naïve...
The internet has demonstrated the people of seperate nations don't hate each other intrinsically, but are driven to hate by rhetoric and doctrine fueled by precarity or adversity.
Regardless, my prescription comes from classic COIN philosophy, not identity politics propaganda. Besides, if bullies — those with the capacity to decide whether or not to cast garbage on thosr weaker than they — continue tonharm when they choose to stop, it is their behavior that fuels hatred and justifies their reputation.
Plenty of jews are kind and even protest the IDF offensives. But those who toss rubbish on Hebron Palestinians are showing a different character.
It's not black and white.
If the elements of Hamas, namely the promising of death to all Israelites from Palestinians disappeared, then relations would improve and yes the garbage would stop. But it would still be a process that takes time to build trust between the people.
I don't agree with your analogy.
What I said was more along the line of, "America electing a black president is a major step to eliminating racism, and it wouldn't happen overnight." I'd point out that I'm just fixing your analogy, not that I am making that statement.
Part of the systematic change requires one side to not want the complete elimination of the other.
Remind me how did the the reservations in the US go for people like the Osage even after they signed treaties? Oklahoma is still Indian country, right?
You'd have to be braindead to believe that. This is a 70 year ongoing conflict.