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I totally can understand why some people see this as a call for the elimination of Israel and the murdering or deportation of all jews that live there. You might disagree, but: Many people view that slogan like this and they have their reasons. And it really is stupid from the protestors to run around during a massive police presence shouting that. It's totally obvious that nothing will we gained by that. Peace in the middle east will not come because you shouted that slogan in the streets of Berlin. Palestinians and Israelis won't start a dialogue and become friends.
That's such an absurd framing. There exist already countless fantastic initiatives for promoting dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. Dialogue at the civil society level has been going on forever. There is nowhere near a lack of dialogue. The problem is not that Palestinians and Israelis haven't started a dialogue, the problem is that Israel is occupying, discriminating, colonizing, brutalizing, murdering, stealing land and ethnically cleansing as a matter of state policy.
It is in this backdrop that good dialogue initiatives are being also delegitimized and stigmatized. On the ground in Palestine but also in the West. In Germany things are so absurd that Israeli Jews and non Israeli Jews who speak out against this madness are being stigmatized as ..."antisemitic".
And in this background you have a national liberation slogan of the oppressed side being maliciously misinterpreted in the worst possible bad faith way. Effectively it forces the discussion to be first and foremost about Israeli comfort, and everything else being secondary. It is absolutely a ludicrous and shameful framing of the whole discourse.
I really am surprised at your comment. I do remember how the current war started and that was not by Israel doing anything, but by a massive terror attack that killed over 1000 Israelis. That Hamas attack had the clear goal to kill as many Israelis as possible. They went through whole towns and killed or kidnapped everyone. In that context you can't use a slogan that is in the Hamas charta, that was used by Hamas in the past and is still used by Hamas and post "oh no, it has nothing to do with those terrorists, it is just a "national liberation slogan of the opressed side". No, it is a slogan used by fucking terrorists and yes, if you are using it, people will notice it and think that you are promoting the goals of this terror group. If you really want peace, just use different slogans that can't be misunderstood as trying to murder all jews in Israel and you're fine. Maybe also try to distance yourself from extremists while advocating for peace, it really is helpful
Why does Hamas get to decide what the slogan means? Psychos in the US are using the punisher logo, does that mean that Marvel is promoting what they do?
Part of freedom is to not relent when you are being told to shut up, to change your message, to obey. If you are fighting for the freedom of oppressed people and the cessation of violence against innocents, and the people hearing you say "stop saying that, say something else", you don't obey, you say it harder until they listen to what you're actually, clearly stating: all people deserve freedom and a life without violence.
Yes, it totally does work like that. The punisher logo is tainted, esp. because psychos in the USA are using it. The swastika is not the good luck symbol it was before the nazis started using it. Nordic runes are awesome, but if you tattoo runes on yourself, people will think that you are a neonazi. That sucks, but the world really does work like that.
And I have to disagree with you: The "from the river to the sea" slogan can and will bei misunderstood or maybe it does exactly what people are thinking: Advocating a violent destruction of Israel and a deportation or murdering of its citizen. I do not know, but seriously, if you want to advocate for "freedom and a life without violence", maybe use a slogan that can't be misunderstood as advocating for murdering people? It's easy.
I'd say symbols are a constant negotiation between meanings. The swastika is lost, but other symbols like Nordic runes are only fully lost if we surrender them. We must fight to insist on the meaning of the symbols not yet lost to evil.
"From the river to the sea; Palestine will be free." This is the slogan I hear. I hear no violence in these words, only a call for freedom for all Palestinians in what used to be Palestine. I can't help but think that the misunderstanding of this slogan is willful.
If this slogan is surrendered to evil, how long before the accusations start against the next slogan? Is waving a Palestinian flag the same as condoning terrorism? Is saying the word "genocide" an act of aggression against Israel? Shouldn't we defend that when we call for freedom, we mean that and just that? And refuse those who would make such a simple call for freedom illegal and associated with evil?
We can be part of controlling the meaning of these things, not only evil can do that.
Do you really think I need a lesson as to what crimes the Hamas fuckheads did on September 7th 2023? Save me the fucking lecture.
But let me check you on something, because I'm really fucking tired with the arbitrary Start of History on September 7th, as if nothing happened before.
The war did not start on September 7th 2023, because there was no peace on September 6th 2023.
There was a ceasefire, that Hamas broke.
There was also a ceasefire was in place between the 19th of January and the 17th of March this year. A ceasfire that was broken by an Israeli surprise attack that killed over 800 Palestinians.
So if we apply YOUR standard to the "start of war", then THIS war started on March 18th 2025 BY ISRAEL.
You want peace? MUZZLE THE FUCKING ISRAELI FASCISTS.
When we agree that Hamas are fuckheads, then let's agree that we should not use their slogans to advocate for peace. Use something else that can't be misunderstood for propagating violence and then let's stop this totally insane infighting everywhere and try to find a way to a peaceful solution, which gives both Palestinians and Israelis the chance to live in peace and prosperity.
You keep saying it's Hamas' slogan. It isn't. It's a PLO slogan. Hamas use it, sure, but like other Islamists, they much prefer "min il-ṃayye la-l-ṃayye / Falasṭīn ʿarabiyye" and "min il-ṃayye la-l-ṃayye / Falasṭīn ʾislāmiyy". Not "free", but "Arabic" and "Islamic".
It's also a rhetorical inversion of a Likud slogan. From their 1977 charter. And Netanyahu has been using it quite recently and his right wing allies have also been using it. Did you hear any pearl clutching when that happened?
So what is going on is that the perpetrators of ethnic cleansing are using it, but you're getting you knickers in a twist when the victims of ethnic cleansing try to reclaim it.
Is you really want a peaceful solution start seeing the truth, that Israel is an anti-democratic Apartheid regime enforcing a brutal occupation, colonization and ethnic cleansing on the Palestinians, with full immunity and support from Western governments. Without a profound change in Israel, of the type that South Africa underwent, there will be no peace.
Edit: since we're on Feddit, sorry I should also mention: "with equal rights for all, especially Jews". Like especially and particularly. All other people, are just in the "for all" category but feddit wants Jews in an especially and particularly category. Not antisemitic that policy at all.