"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
On any of the donation threads where it came up and he replied to it, the most he ever did was some half hearted corporate PR "apology" (ironic)
I don't agree with this assumption. By that logic, one could argue that anyone who uses Lemmy has no issue with those positions (because if we did, we wouldn't be supporting the project of that "degenerate"). Sometimes in life we are forced to accept imperfect allies in order to accomplish our goals.
I am not supporting Dessalines or his degenerate tankies. I use Windows, that doesn't mean I "support" Microsoft.
Let me try a different approach. Imagine the following hypothetical scenario:
Al-Queda stages an invasion of the north eastern part of the US. They land in Long Island and during their attempt to reach NYC, start mass summary killing of civilians in Long Island before the US army is able to kick them out.
Individual A claims that this a mere negotiation tactic and that the mass killing in Long Island are a CIA fabrication. Individual A also labels any source other than Al-Queda propaganda media as misinformation and routinely promotes new media from Al-Queda's propaganda arm.
Individual B is publicly associated with individual A and also just so happens to have a avatar of Sayyid Qutb, one of the key ideological sources of Al-Queda and other violet jihadist organizations.
I somehow doubt you would take a statement from me about "Sometimes in life..." as a legitimate argument. On the contrary, you would probably think I am being rather provincial and arrogant, no?
I understand that. Similarly, just because Nutomic is working with Dessalines to code an open source software project doesn't imply that they share the exact same beliefs.
I don't get how your analogy relates to this discussion. I'm not sure what it is that you think you're fighting against, but I disagree with your aggressive and judgmental approach. It seems to me that you are provoking unecessary conflict against the wrong people.
I am pointing out that your tone comes as condescending and paternalistic "Sometimes in life..." considering Dessalines openly supports mass killings, promotes russian propaganda and claims all facts that don't align with his worldview are a CIA conspiracy.
It is reasonable to question Nutomic's association with Dessalines. It's not a matter of being rigid in your views and not having an appreciation for a "big tent" approach. A big tent approach is not a deus ex machina that magically solves anything and everything. There are times when it viable and there are times when it is not.
Furthermore, the issue is not black and white. There are many other options available. Nutomic can take over Lemmy development while Dessalines can admin/mod ML and grad (and tankies can give him money for it). Nutomic can replace his Che Guevara avatar with something neutral, like the Lemmy mouse with a tool icon to highlight that he is a Lemmy dev.
This is clearly a major issue. Just look at the funding request thread on LW. I am not the only one who is unhappy with the tankie affiliation. Even on other social networks, Lemmy has a reputation as being infested with tankies, this is a clear blocker for growth.
I am being condescending because I consider your perspective to be naive and short sighted.
You're a person who makes judgments about others based on hearsay and attacks them without even doing a bare minimum of research to validate whether the rumors you heard were true. You're a person who is more than happy to calumniate others for little to no reason while being oblivious to your own flaws.
In my view, users who believe the world revolves around them and relentlessly attack and shame anyone who doesn't accept their version of reality are a much bigger obstacle to the growth of Lemmy than the tankie reputation. Many tankies fit that description, but so do many non-tankies, such as yourself in this case.
As someone who possesses open-mindedness and empathy, it's incredibly frustrating to watch so many lemmings act so self-righteous and judgmental towards each other, while pretending their own shit doesn't stink. I'm trying to help contribute and build towards a diverse and healthy online forum for open intellectual discussion, but it seems that the vast majority of people are too immature to realize such a goal.
For you something like denying mass killings seems to be of no importance. This is not the case for most people. It is not exclusive to my worldview.
Dessalines views and actions (that are well documented) are so extreme that there will be pushback when someone collaborates with him. Lecturing people is not going to change that.
The obstacles to growth is having a member of the development team who spews degenerate tankie bullshit (while almost certainly never having lived in Ukraine or knowing Ukrainian).
You claim to be for open-mindedness and empathy. Yet you are not open to any other actions (I provided examples in my previous) other than full acceptance of Nutomic's affiliation with Dessalines and his despicable bullshit.
But you do you man. I think anyone reading this thread can come to their own conclusions about who is immature or not.
Everything exists on a spectrum. You're choosing to see things in black and white, but that doesn't correspond to reality. I am absolutely certain that you hold political views that many other people would characterize as unacceptable and unethical. However, I also recognize that even though you may be wrong about certain things, that doesn't completely erase your value as a human being. I can only hope that you someday come to understand this fact.
You keep ignoring the fact that Nutomic can disassociate with Dessalines if he wanted to (not to mention Dessalines degeneracy).
You clearly have nothing else to say beyond passive-aggressive personal attacks.
I am done here.
You could disassociate with Dessalines by stopping using Lemmy. But you choose not to. Why do you continue to associate yourself with Dessalines by using Lemmy?
Perhaps because your association with Dessalines is motivated by something completely tangential to his political stances? Then you ought to understand that the same is likely true for Nutomic.
You're holding people to an impossible standard that you yourself are unable to live up to.