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He should meet a Luigi.
The problem isn't that we need to get rid of Tate. They are like flies and there will always be more like him.
What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys - that's the real problem. We need to know why young boys are willing to listen to bullshit like his, and we must figure out what we can do to correct that.
Why is this a mystery to people? Everything is falling apart and most adults are in denial about it, kids are going to follow people like this because they sense the nihilism of the moment that their parent's can't handle confronting.
We do need to get rid of Andrew Tate though I will settle for him going back to jail, but his popularity isn't a mystery. There is a very clear pipeline to make money as a conservative influencer, this is then ultimately an issue of money being poured into manipulating children.
No positive father figure in their lives. No sense of community. Stigma from male role models that want to step up but fear being branded a PDF.
A big part of this is the shallow takes on feminism that are so pervasive.
And to be clear, it’s not feminism itself that is the problem. It’s the complete lack of nuance we have when discussing topics as a society. The idiots outnumber the thoughtful people, and when an idea becomes mainstream, the dumbest possible take is the loudest and the easiest to spread. So actual feminism got out-yelled by idiots taking the idea to the most illogical extreme.
And that leads to light misandry. And even if it is light, it’s so pervasive that young boys now feel like they’re being overlooked and ignored, demonized and generalized with the worst men have to offer.
And again, I have to stress, that this isn’t because of feminism, it’s because of the lack of nuance surrounding all discussion, but in this case, the discussion around men/feminist issues. It’s much easier to spread “all men are garbage” than it is to spread “women have historically faced complex issues that, together, are a societal stumbling block resulting in less favor in everyday life and a harder, more complicated existence.”
And when this is the case, men like these assholes step in to tell boys, “fuck women, you are a king and you deserve everything.” And what little boy isn’t going to be empowered by that? We need to have space for men in modern society that is supportive and open, because right now the only “support for young men” comes from assholes trying to capitalize on the complicated feelings of suddenly feeling like they’re being unfairly overlooked.
Now, that also has to take into account that if the boys are ever overlooked, it’s because there have been centuries of unequal treatment for women, and that has to start to be righted somewhere. And it’s only been in the last, like, 30-50 years. And in all that time, we haven’t taken the high road to equality, we’ve taken the easy road hyperbole and simplistic solutions, which doesn’t solve the existing problem, it just gives us new ones—like this exact problem we’re dealing with now.
Thanks for writing out your thoughts like this. I try to make this point again and again in different settings but it often does not illicit a thoughtful response.
I honestly don't have a strong sense of how Tate can be so popular. But if I had to guess, I'd say the "no sense of community" is probably the biggest thing.
The internet has become a gathering place where communities and social bonds are formed. I can imagine a heap of people who are struggling socially in the real world seeing, and then seeing Tate and his community offer an 'answer' to that - supporting those who feel rejected, and putting the blame squarely on others. That's what I see as the draw that brings people in. They feel safe and secure in their haven of hatred. Any opposition to them is from people that are weaker and less important. -- Which then makes leaving the group almost impossible, because you'd have to degrade your own view of yourself - joining the people who you think are weaker and less important.
So this Tate thing is rot that has taken root because of a gap in more healthy support structures. (I don't see an easy solution for it though!)
You can do both
We only talk about the absolute worst men. We have raised them to think that the right is the party for them because otherwise they are being told over and over that they are dangerous predators and nothing more.
Because all we hear about men from the left is that women would rather be with bears, and that men are useless. And that they are oppressing everyone with their privilege.
You tell some poor white kid he's privileged, he's not going to be your friend or sympathetic to your causes.
I don't think messaging from the left has really done anything to win them over. It's not necessarily that Andrew Tate is telling them anything amazing. He's just a voice not blaming them for everything.
This is really it.
It's not even a left vs. right debate at this point. It's a problem with human psychology where we can't accept a modest approach to anything. Everything has to be blown out of proportion and distorted to the point it's not even representative of reality.
Either people are 100% with you, or they're 100% against you.
I blame reddit and forums like these, honestly, for playing a big role in creating this divide.
This is nonsense, the rightwing has clearly evolved this way but provide evidence the leftwing has or stop repeating this narrative of "both sides".
Y'all will "both sides" everything right up until a conservative yells a slur at you and kicks you out the door as you get deported to a brutal prison in an authoritarian country because conservatives decided you weren't worthy of basic human rights.
Then again maybe you will still sit in your cell shaking your head saying to yourself "damn, both sides got so extreme" .
edit how about you provide some evidence instead of just downvoting like an intellectual coward?
You. You call your own allies intellectual cowards. You're part of the reason the left drives it's own support away.
The only people driving people away right now are centrists... which is why those of us on the left are so worried.
So these centrists?
https://youtube.com/shorts/fpEjHCW-lLk
And surely you're aware of the "No true Scottsman" logical fallacy?
Maybe it’s because all we hear from your type is how immigrants are the root of all problems, “all lives matter” and junk like that.
What a great example of what they were talking about!
What's my type? You couldn't have made my point for me any harder than you just did. You just irrationally lashed out at an ally.
“There are too many assholes in the world because people let them get away with it.” - Mr Inbetween