this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
1 points (66.7% liked)

Memes

49871 readers
2841 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I’m cis. I’m a cis man with a exclusive sexual interest in cis women.

Here. Unless you know for certainty that you can 100 percent correctly identify every person you meet as cis or trans, you wouldn't have the knowledge to confidently make that statement.

Unless I misunderstand?

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have very clearly stated that I am exclusively interested in cis women. Are you suggesting that a trans person would ignore my very clearly stated preference and lie to me in order to have sex with me?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Hey, maybe instead of leaning on the "trap" meme that gets trans women brutally murdered you can actually engage with the content of what I'm saying.

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you nitpicking an ally for using "exclusive" instead of "principal"?

MapleEngineer doesn't actually know for sure that he has never been attracted to a trans woman. So it's important to correct him when he says he has an exclusive sexual interest in cis-women.

Is that your point? That failing to acknowledge the nuance that sexuality exists on a spectrum must be addressed confrontationally because it's erasure?

Transphobia and homophobia are too often literally (yes, I mean literally) beaten into men. We have to work to unlearn it. If an ally says he wouldn't be able to keep it up if he learned the woman he was courting was assigned male at birth, believe him, but don't discount him as an ally. Imo your efforts are better spent combating active transphobia than policing your allies. If their terminology hurts you, suggest better ways to articulate their points but do it collaboratively instead of confrontationally.

Just my two cents.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

If you have issues with my tone maybe you should have raised the issue instead of me, because you obviously know how to do it better.

You can still collaboratively discuss with him why he is incorrect and how he is falling into ambient transmisogyny if you want.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I very clearly stated my preference. You're trying to use pedantic arguments to invalidate my clearly stated preference. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to have a preference or that people who don't like that preference or don't think I should have that preference should be allowed to simply ignore my preference?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I think that your "preference" is based on very sloppy thinking rooted in ambient transphobia. I think you are also confusing a desire for precision of thought with being pedantic.

I think you're trying to imply that preferences are neutral facts. I think you should consider how you'd react to someone saying "I am only attracted to white women" or "I am only attracted to 18 y/o women". Do you think their preference is a neutral fact or an expression of something?

Oh, also, expression of "preference" is different than having a preference. Ask why you felt the need to say it in this thread.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have a preference. Am I not allowded to have a preference that you disagree with? I should just accept what you want and keep my mouth shut?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

At minimum keep it to yourself. Ask yourself what the utility of saying it is. Because what I read is "I support trans people but I still find them gross personally because if I don't say that people will think I'm a f*g"

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

At minimum keep it to yourself

So you're telling me that I should stay in the closet because you don't like my chosen lifestyle?

Do you hear what you're saying?

Ask yourself what the utility of saying it is.

The meme was about people who use "cis" as an insult and the people who find it insulting. My comment completely disarms the fanatics who use "cis" as a slur by embracing the word the way that it was originally intended to be used AND by using it in a way that those fanatics don't like.

“I support trans people but I still find them gross personally”

This is an utterly ridiculous straw man. Literally worthy of ridicule. These are bad arguments and you should be ashamed to have made them.

You clearly don't have anything to say that is worth of discussion.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

This is an utterly ridiculous straw man. Literally worthy of ridicule. These are bad arguments and you should be ashamed to have made them.

Yeah, let me just page up all the trans and feminist academics writing on stigma theory as it relates to misogyny and transmisogyny and let them know that they are wrong, that cis men are never afraid of being tainted by an association with women or queer people

Or maybe you're just wrong and defensive, which is 1000 times worse than just being wrong and learning from being wrong, which is a normal human thing.

When your online ego isn't on the line I'd suggest reading Sexed Up by Julie Serano.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You have become what you hate.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Well read on transmisogyny? How do you want me to point out to you that you're incorrect? Like, earnestly, what is the right way to point out to someone that they're being bigoted when they don't know they're being bigoted?

I know more on this than you

on a personal level- plenty of men hit on me and then when I speak in my non-passing voice to let them know I'm a lesbian react with disgust. Men who say they'd never be attracted to a trans woman have had no problem aggressively hitting on me

On an academic level- I've read a lot of feminist works on misogyny, and works on how transmisogyny operates.

You haven't done enough study on the topic to have an opinion that you should personally stand by.

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak?

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I said nothing about forcing my preferences on you but you're working VERY hard to force your preferences on me.

That says a LOT more about you than it does about me.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

What do you mean by my preferences? I am annoyed when people spout bullshit that they don't understand is bullshit and then get defensive when you tell them they're wrong, stop playing the victim.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Could you possibly be any more egotistical? You are really full of yourself.

I understand completely that I am a cis man and that my sexual preference is for cis women. Why are you trying to force your beliefs down my throat? What defect of personality is it that makes you think that you should decide what I'm allowed to like?

I'm not being defensive. I don't give the first fuck what you think I should like. I'm just trying to help you to understand how utterly toxic you are.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yeah, I'm the egotistical one, not the cis guy trying to explain why it isn't actually transmisogyny to a trans woman who has studied and experienced this specific form of transmisogyny.

You aren't some static being where people attempting to change your mind about something you haven't investigated is some violation. If that is what it feels like to you maybe you need to do some self reflection, because what I am describing to you is literally just the process of learning.

Edit: also men like you love to force your preference on me. Do you know how many times I've been cornered (because some men like to do that when hitting on someone) and had to be there for a man's significant emotional event after realizing he was attracted to a trans woman? This is me being proactive so some trans woman doesn't have to deal with your freak out if you end up hitting on a trans woman.