this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2025
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I think that's, usually, not necessary. The "going on at length" part, that is. People want to know you're not literally Andrea Dworkin, trying to actively reinforce the toxic AF "women are always victims, men are always perpetrators" narrative etc, but it takes like five words to make that clear.
Complications might arise when you're trying to simultaneously assuage hurt men and misandrists. I fear it's either "'kill all men' is toxic" or "'kill all men' is a valid expression of your anger, let it all out", there's no real space for compromise, there.
That all said your post and this reply probably wouldn't have happened on pixelfed so your point stands. Disengagement is perfectly valid.
...
/face in hands
Okay I took a minute and I have to go through this with you.
So just so I'm clear, all women have to make clear they don't think what Andrea Dworkin does (sigh), because all men aren't responsible for men as a group being, statistically, the perpetrators of rape, partner violence, etc?
If you start a sentence with "all men" then you should take a step back and say "fucked-up men" or suchlike, is all I'm saying. That was even three words, not five. You can also say something like "men should speak up more often", that's a general call to action, and not a blanket verdict on individuals who might be reading it. The "yes all men" of this song (total banger btw).
This is a general norm I apply to everyone regarding every topic: Don't paint groups with broad, antagonistic, brushes. It never does any good, no matter who does it to whom or whatever the excuses are one might be able to come up with to justify it. The means are vile, the ends at best neutral, there's no benefit to be had.
Also side note at least according to the statistics over here in Germany partner violence, if psychological violence is taken into account, is almost exactly even among hetero couples and, in the overwhelming number of cases, mutual: Assholes hook up with assholes they just, statistically, express it differently. Things might very well look differently where you're from, another reason to not generalise.
No. Also in no example was that how anything started. I said women can talk about being victims of violence and men always do what you're doing right now.
1/3 of German women had experienced physical and/or sexual violence. ONE THIRD.
Stop trying to make this something that's even between men and women. It isn't. You're giving these guys in my inbox furious about exactly the reason for my original fucking comment a green light to do this shit by hand-waving the reality women face.
If this is how Lemmy is going to be, I'm so thankful pixelfed is exploding in size because women deserve the goddamn break.
When men talk about being victims of psychological violence, what happens then? That they have been driven into depression, even into being violent, by an intimate parter, parent, or such?
How do people react? How did you react?
They are reminded that if they wanted to talk about that, they were more than welcome, but a thread about a woman who was talking about her sexual assault isn't the place to 'what about us.'
Also cool dodge of having your entire argument torn apart only to abandon it and switch to a different one.
I was a young man who was sexually assaulted, and by a woman, and I still know that doesn't mean that it's equal. It's people like you who de-legitimize what I went through by making it seem like a game of Brinkmanship with women, when in reality it was the women I spoke to who got me through it, and the men who asked if it was possible for me, as a man, to be raped, and then mocked me for it.
And what I'm talking about doesn't invalidate that for even a second.
I can't relate to it because male culture doesn't work like that over here but, sure, it sucks. Still doesn't make sense to ignore psychological violence in the overall picture, though. I'd call the stuff the men display there narrative violence: They internalised that they can never be victims, and then accosted you with their self-perception.
This isn't one of those threads. Yet what did you do? We had a thing going on, there, there was banger music. Seriously if you haven't yet listen to it. Use the UK subtitles.
The only place I know on lemmy on which it's possible to have a whole thread about this is !mensliberation@lemmy.ca. Press doesn't like to talk about it, presumably because of a predictable "what about the women" pushback, so it never comes up in the news communities. Plenty of sociological research exists, though.
I didn't want to go into the weeds of how BKA statistics are police statistics and in no way, shape, or form, suitable for anything without taking both the actual criminal statistics (cases brought to trial as well as convictions) and other surrounding factors such as under/overreporting, current force focus, etc, into consideration. According to police statistics, if you report your phone stolen and then retract that because you found it again, that's a theft.
I'm a man, and I was assaulted when I was younger, and you are exactly why men don't come out about it. We look like whiny snivelling little children who try to pretend this is the fault of women while we live in a goddamn patriarchal society and have men at every step preventing the very care we need. A woman ran the support group I went to, a woman ran the shelter I had to stay in, a woman held my hand in the fucking hospital, and at every step men insulted me and laughed at me and asked if I was a fag, because they thought the woman was good looking. This absolute bullshit where you blame women like it's their fault they're attacked by men, like it's their fault for talking about it, the entire 'mens lib' movement is garbage and forces those of us who've been through assault to be represented by the worst our sex has to offer.
The best thing you could do to help men like me is to shut your goddamn mouth and at the very least leave us to the care of women, because they actually do seem to give a shit and at no time ever blamed 'all men' for what I went through.
Fuck your reductive bullshit, fuck ever being tricked by the wealthy into attacking women on their behalf, and I still hope you never go through what I did.
Do you seriously believe that there's not a single man, in the whole wide world, who has your back?
You SERIOUSLY don't hear other people, do you? You don't see what's said to you, what's right in front of you? All you think about is what you want and how you can change what they say to meet it.
The mens lib movement, and the ridiculous attacks on women you voice don't help people like me, who were attacked, because you change the focus, from help for everyone, to pitting men against women. No woman's group ever blocked me access to care. Women don't vote conservative at the rate men do, and conservative's stop these groups from being made. The help I got was entirely from women volunteering their time and help. The people who tried to limit it, or change access, were men. The Conservative governments that remove funding for these programs are run by men, and voted for by men, and protected by men. The CEO's who sabotage funding for public resources so they can get more tax breaks are patriarchal. Are women there? Sure. Is it run by them? No.
Our entire political, economic, and social system set up to benefit 'masculine' efforts. Being raped by a woman is seen by this system as 'effeminate.'
The men who did eventually help me are hardcore left-wing socialists who understood, and spoke with me about how harmful the patriarchal system we all live under was to me, and others like me. We also spoke about the sheer damage the garbage people like you and your 'mens lib' movement has hurt us. Women didn't even have the right as human beings until recently. In our own societies we deny them bodily autonomy and the right to vote and the right to be people under the law. And then people like you come out and say it's all womens fault, and every time a woman speaks out about institutionally allowed sexual assault you scream from the rafters that men are hurt to, but NEVER when I asked for fucking help! NEVER when I was suffering! Only when women speak out, or someone talks about the FACT women are more likely to be assaulted, are assaulted more often, and the systems in place that allow it to happen, then you cowards come out and PRETEND TO PROTECT ME?!
FUCK. THAT.
You don't represent me, and people like you make me ashamed to be a man.
I don't want to represent or speak for you, I want you to speak your own truth, and listen to that of others. I also never said that it's "all women's fault", I'm saying that generalised enmity is counterproductive.
I'm saying that we all have a part of the puzzle and if we all manage to chip in instead of villainising each other in essentialist terms, things would move along a lot faster. I'm an Anarchist, not an incel.
They were. They were absolutely hurt and damaged when they were not able to help you because they internalised a patriarchal narrative: "Men are perpetrators, not victims". It's there to replace camaraderie with hierarchy, institute a pecking order. It does not serve men a bit, hierarchy never does any good.
These two things -- you not getting help from men, and men being hurt -- are not at odds with each other. They're causally connected.