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this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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You evaded the question with semantics. Is one meme ‘overwhelmingly’ more than a nation of Philippinos?
I didn't evade anything, you've been fundamentally wrong about reality several times. Secondly, it wasn't "the nation of the Philippines," it was some users, and the fact that the yellow bear caricature is overwhelmingly western does not mean non-western users don't exist.
You're going to massive lengths to defend depicting a chinese man as a yellow bear.
Pooh having yellow fur is entirely irrelevant to any usage I've seen. I don't think anyone is using it in a racist manner and if you examing its usage I think you'll agree that it wouldn't make sense for that to be the primary motivator; it's posted because it's censored, not for any racial motivation.
Why do you think it was censored?
We can test whether it is, go on rednote right now and post about winnie the pooh and get back to me
No, not if, I asked you why.
Oh sorry, I thought you were asking why I had the belief that it was censored, not what I thought the reason for it to be censored was. Ambiguous wording and all that. Apologies.
It's likely censored because Xi Jinping finds it offensive. I had assumed this was because of Pooh's weight, or his intelligence, or general mannerisms. It could be due to his color I suppose, but it's not the only explanation. If that's actually the reason it would be a lot more distasteful to refer to him as Pooh.
It's my opinion that "mannerisms" don't really hold much weight, same with "intelligence." The remaining two are weight and color, and there's absolutely nothing saying it can't be both.
You don't think that it's insulting to be compared to a goofy character with very low intelligence?
I don't think it's likely that those were the intentions. They don't visually stand out, yet the visual comparisons remain.
Asian people don't actually visually look yellow, that's just racist charicature. If the comparisons are purely visual then it would be about his weight, especially around his face.
And the comparisons aren't necessarily only visual. Winnie the Pooh has a well-known personality and behaviors, and as a meme there isn't necessarily a re-comparison being made every time it's reposted. Note that Pooh images are more popular than any other comparisons, because it's an existing meme.
I think you're tying yourself into a logical pretzel here, are you going to tell me blackface isn't racist because nearly nobody has that pure black use in minstrel shows? This seems like incredible displays of mental gymnastics, rather than taking occams razor.
I don't agree that racism is the simplest explanation. I could be wrong, but it isn't how I've seen the image be used.
How have you seen the image being used in a manner that makes other explanations more likely?
No. Like I said, I think your explanation could also make sense. It's just not the assumption that I made.
Fair enough. However, I think it's worth pointing out that the most vocal users of such iconography, when confronted with even the possibility that it may in fact be racist to depict a chinese man as a yellow bear (curiously, usually depicted wearing a red shirt, like the flag of the PRC), they tie themselves into frothing logical pretzels to defend their usage, rather than shifting to any other clearly non-racist yet still insulting caricature.
Note: absolutely not saying the author of Pooh was making anti-China iconography way back when, I am pointing out modern usage.
His shirt being red referencing the PRC is actually a great non-racist visual connection. And of course they wouldn't suddenly switch to another caricature; the meme is Pooh, so that's what they're going to use.
The thing with the shirt is that it places greater emphasis on the visuals. If we accept that there's in some cases a connection to the shirt, we can also accept that that means there is certainly connection to the yellow bear. "Yellowface" is already a known concept.
Hmm, yeah makes sense.
Again, you change the disagreement when you’re being disproven. You can’t support the claim that it’s ‘overwhelmingly’ Westerners, which is the point I challenged.
Go ahead a re-read this thread rather than wasting both of our time changing your point to continue a needless debate.
What did you "disprove?" You didn't discredit anything, you just said non-western users of the Pooh caricature exist, not that they make up a majority of the users. This is intense debatelording to defend the use of racist caricatures.