this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
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[–] hark@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

People like you seem to think protesting against genocide is a bigger problem than sending billions in support of genocide. I can't tell if it's a matter of diehard party support above all else or simple delusion.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Just acknowledge that we were always getting one of two options. This isn’t confusing in the slightest.

To extend the analogy used in the comment starting this thread, it’s like leaving your abusive partner to live with a more abusive partner.

Why the ever loving fuck would you choose the worse option?

[–] hark@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The choices were genocide or genocide. Apparently some privileged people here haven't noticed that the genocide has already been getting worse and worse for over a year now.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Maybe electing someone unlikely to restrain them at all while simultaneously making shit worse in the US and Ukraine, doing a 180 on what little climate progress we’ve made, making abortion illegal nationwide, and reducing/ending social security will help.

[–] hark@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Biden wasn't restraining israel at all and Harris kept talking about how she'd be a continuation of Biden. Now you're bringing in a bunch of other issues that aren't what these voters are focused on. Turns out you have to appeal to voters to get their votes.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You seem to be under the impression that all discussions between the two countries happened in public. Do I have that right?

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Ok, then what evidence do you have that Biden’s private discussions had any tangible benefit? Biden praised and hugged Netanyahu in public, but if you want me to believe he was harsh on him in private, show me what secret “behind the scenes” action made it worth it to allow Netanyahu to publicly insult Biden and make the US look complicit in war crimes. Did it prevent escalation of the war or bombing of Lebanon? No. Did it force Israel to stop bombing Gaza hospitals? Did it force Israel to publicly hold soldiers to account for war crimes? Nope. Did he force both sides into a ceasefire or get hostages with American citizenship back? NO. Literally every one of Biden’s publicly stated Israel-Palestine policies failed.

You have nothing to show for this “trust Biden, he’s working behind the scenes even if he’s looking like a fool in public for praising Netanyahu and acting blind to the atrocities in Gaza.”

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

There’s people in my community who lost relatives in Gaza. I’ve been to their funerals. Their families will tell you, “Trump didn’t kill my family, Biden did.” Please tell me how I could convince them to put that aside and vote for Biden anyway. We tried, despite Biden’s speeches on the topic making it harder and harder since he decided to twist that knife in deeper and deeper by giving such helpful speeches saying that he doesn’t trust Palestinians or that Israel has not committed any war crimes.

In the end, Harris got far more votes in my community than Trump did, but it didn’t make any difference since Trump won by a margin bigger than all the voters in my community.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Trump ultimately ended up carrying Dearborn, a majority Arab American city in Michigan, by more than 6 percentage points — a massive swing from Biden’s nearly 40 point win there in 2020. But most Dearborn voters also voted against Trump, who got about 43% support in a deeply split field.

Guess you're not in Dearborn.

I wonder if these people just don't think Trump is that great a threat or still haven't figured out how FPTP voting works yet.

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago

Dearborn is one town among many in the area, it doesn’t completely represent the Arab-American community in the state or the Muslim-American community.

Second, Trump pulled ahead in Dearborn because so many disgusted voters stayed home and voted for neither. Turnout was shockingly low compared to 2020, partly because both candidates had such an ugly unappealing stance on Gaza, and Dearborn wound up splitting their vote between Harris and Stein, giving Trump a mild plurality. It’s not all together different from Trump winning certain neighborhoods in the Bronx since so many people decided not to vote this year.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As I said in the other comment you left, your interpretation of the analogy makes no sense. Your point would be valid if I were discussing Arab and Muslim voters who voted for Trump, but I'm not; I'm discussing the Uncommitted movement, who endorsed neither candidate.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Oh they only didn’t know whether they wanted to better or worse option. Still pretty goddamn stupid.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, also no, and it you'd actually read the original comment, you'd know that. As I said:

they declined to endorse her, but still urged their supporters not to vote Trump or third-party.

They knew Trump was worse, they didn't want Trump to win, but they needed Harris to make a gesture towards the Arab community before they could endorse her; she didn't, so they didn't. She didn't negotiate to get their endorsement, so she didn't get their endorsement. It's very funny that you're acting like everyone else is an idiot yet you still don't understand this.

[–] Iceman@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A perfect analogy where you argue to stay with abusive partner and you are actually a horrible person if you don't want to stay with your abusive partner. The idea that your partner stops being abusive is also so absurd that it's out of the question.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, yeah. People said this leading up to the election to. The plain logic of "we're getting one of these two" didn't seem to click with many, you included.

I'm a cis white male who makes pretty damn good money so in all likelihood I'll be fine. That surely won't be the case for many. I tried. /shrug

[–] Iceman@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I bet you did wonders with your "stay with your abuser" rhetoric. With clever posters like you, how a could we possibly have lost? But i am happy to read that the election did matter to you anyway.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You can lead a horse to water.

[–] Iceman@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But you can't make it understand that you beat them because you actually love them so much, and that they are lucky to have you. Sad

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Choosing the better of two options too difficult logic for many, I guess.