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[–] atro_city@fedia.io 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Is god also jesus and the holy spirit all at once?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yes.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thruth is, opinions differ a lot among christians when it comes to trinity. You should respect other views (and not just the christian ones).

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Apart from whether or not The Holy Spirit proceeds from the son as well as The Father, opinion doesn't differ and all Christians agree on the triune God.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's simply not true, unitarians disagree with the trinity thing.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Unitarianism is a completely different religion 🤦 even Islam is closer to Christianity than to Unitarianism

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Also not true. The Unitarian church is a reformed Christian branch, and there are more than one unitarian branches. The fact they seem like heretics to you doesn't mean they're not Chistians.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Christians worship Christ. Unitarians do not.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Unitarians are a Christian branch whether you like it or not. For anyone interested, here's more info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Then I am an Atheist who believes in God

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago

That's actually what I am. I believe in God in people's minds, a natural phenomenon.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Ah, yes, the holy Trinity.

The only thing that made less sense than a virgin birth or resurrection.

It still doesn't make sense. Like from a narrative view either. It doesn't help the story, or the belief it's just a useless... Thing?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago

It makes sense in the context of an infinite being existing in numerous places at once. It's not useless as it shows God Himself died for our sins

[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

a virgin birth

parthenogenesis – Jesus is a clone of Mary – which also make him canonically a trans man

[–] lime@feddit.nu 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

the perfect push over the edge for the doubting christian in your life: was Jesus trans or was Mary an adulterer?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)
[–] Enkrod@feddit.org 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Virgin births exist in nature. There are entire species of lizards that are only composed of females, for example the mourning gecko lepidodactylus lugubris only reproduces via virgin birth.

Due to how parthogenesis works, individuals born through virgin births are always clones of the mother. Thus they are all females.

If (big if) Jesus existed and IF (even bigger if) he was conceived through a virgin birth, he therefore must have been biologically female since there were no male chromosomes involved in his conception. Hence, Jesus sex must have been female but his gender was male (he/him pronouns)... ergo he was a trans man.

If Jesus existed and was a biological male, he could not have been conceived through a virgin birth, the best explanation then is that either a) Mary had sex with Joseph, but then why the virgin birth story? Or b) Mary was an adulterer who concocted the "virgin birth" story to hide her adultery from Joseph.

Since explanation a) falls flat on it's face, we are left with either 1) trans man or 2) Mary the adulterer.

Edit: correcting spelling mistakes

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Scholars unanimously agree that Jesus existed, was baptised and crucified. His followers had reason to believe that He rose from the dead as well.

You also left out explanation 0, which is that Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit. Jesus did have a Father - God. He is God from God. Joseph was also visited by an angel and I think we could probably take it as fact that they didn't divorce (as we have records of Jesus being referred to a boy of Joseph) So no, this can't cause a crisis of faith for a believer.

Miracles are called miracles for a reason- you are right that a virgin cannot give birth to a male without divine intervention (except from artificial insemination)

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Why did God create a bespoke Y chromosome just for Jesus? Why couldn’t Jesus have been born female? What would that change?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago

Because God is male. Man was created in God's image, Jesus refers to God in heaven as Father, Jesus is a male (He was circumcised) and the Holy Spirit is also Male (as the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary)

[–] lime@feddit.nu 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago

How does it debunk Christianity?