If Zelensky surrendered at the very outset, it would have avoided this particular bloody war, but what injustice would it have incurred for the Ukranian people? If Zelensky sued for peace terms and conceded territory 2 years ago instead of leaning into conscription, what harms does it risk for the Ukranian people and their long term security using Crimea as an example?

The answer to these questions is obvious given that whatever deal Ukraine ends up with is going to be strictly worse than it would've been at the start of the war. All Zelensky accomplished was to destroy his country, and to ensure that millions of people died or had their lives ruined to achieve a worse long term outcome for Ukraine.

[–] goldfndr@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The answer to those questions (surrender at oustset ￫ what injustice, what harms) is not obvious, please spell it out.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago

The answer is obvious, there was no scenario where Ukraine could have won the war. The only possible thing that could've happened was precisely what we see happening. Pretty much anybody with even a minimal understanding of the situation understood this before the war started. Here's how Obama put it back in 2016

Obama declares Ukraine to be not a core American interest and that he is reluctant to intervene in the country, because Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there. “The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-NATO country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do.”