I had no idea that the president of Ukraine was in control of the Russian forces invading the country, if you have proof of this you should probably like, reveal it or something, that would be kind of a big news story!

[+] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I had no idea that the president of Ukraine was in control of the Russian forces invading the country

Literally never said that, ok :)

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My mistake, you described things Russia is doing and then assigned the agency of those things to the president of Ukraine, so I’m sure you can see why I’d be confused!

[+] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My mistake, you described things Russia is doing and then assigned the agency of those things to the president of Ukraine, so I’m sure you can see why I’d be confused!

Lol, really?

Russia is doing "Forbidding people to leave the country, making them stay in the bombed cities so that there are more casualties."?
Woah, now I see why everyone hates Russia! If Russia really has this power of forbidding people to leave the territory they do not control - we really need to destroy them at all cost, this power is too dangerous for anyone to have it.. /s

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nice work cherry picking the single item on the list that doesn’t fit, you sure aren’t beating the allegations today!

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Ah, so you meant

Kidnapping people off the streets, beating them, holding them in basements for multiple days.

So here is about kidnappings, there is now a first hand source now actually: https://www.yahoo.com/news/m-ukrainian-conscription-officer-people-070000956.html

beating - well that goes without saying when you are kidnapping someone, it's hard to do that without beating, but if that gets you off - you can find something here https://uadraftmuseum.ch/incidents

some stories about holding people in the basements: https://goloskarpat.info/society/66f2bfed03425/ https://informator.ua/uk/tck-husta-utrimuye-turistiv-iz-bronyuvannyam-u-zhahliviy-pidzemniy-tyurmi-spovid-chinovnika-z-dnipra

and to make sure to get you off, here is about gasing and trying to set people's vehicle on fire: https://unn.ua/en/news/they-tried-to-smoke-out-a-man-and-gassed-the-car-a-scandalous-video-of-the-tccs-actions-near-kyiv-has-appeared-online and one about literally tortures: https://news.novyny.live/en/u-genshtabi-vidreaguvali-na-pogrozi-ta-nasilstvo-u-211-i-brigadi-219974.html

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Show me where I either denied Ukraine was doing these things, or celebrated them happening, because that sure didn’t happen.

What I specifically said, and what you’ve consistently danced around, is that Russia is doing these things at least as much but more likely more and you seem to not really care about “your people” when Russians do these things to them. Maybe you’re a Ukrainian citizen who supports Russia taking over the country, or supports moving closer to Russias sphere of influence as opposed to the EU. Thats cool, you’re entitled to think that, but you aren’t entitled to pretend that Russia is magically absolved of anything bad they’ve done because WEST BAD.

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Show me where I either denied Ukraine was doing these things, or celebrated them happening, because that sure didn’t happen.

but you aren’t entitled to pretend that Russia is magically absolved of anything bad they’ve done because WEST BAD.

Well, let me play an UNO reverse card on you and ask where did I "pretend that Russia is magically absolved of anything bad they’ve done" :)

It's so fucked up that every time I point out Zelensky's atrocities and that he (with western support) terrorizes, kidnaps, tortures & murders people - someone accuses me of supporting Russia. First does not imply second.

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Every single time you’ve assigned blame for things Russia did on Ukraine was you absolving Russia, hope that helps!

You’re not being accused of supporting Russia because you dislike Zelensky, you’re being accused of supporting Russia because there’s a large overlap between what you think would be good for you personally and what would be good for Russia and you refuse to acknowledge that overlap and dance around it in a way that comes off as arguing in bad faith.

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Every single time you’ve assigned blame for things Russia did on Ukraine

Well, name one example pretty please :)

All of the things Zelensky did is because he chose to do it. Every kidnapping, beating, death, torture done by his regime is his (and his supporters) responsibility, noone else's.

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’m sure you can find the strength within to scroll up, I know you’re just trying to waste my time.

And again, we are back to do you have evidence that Zelensky would’ve done these things if there wasn’t an active invasion of the country because that kind of shifts the context here. War is horrific, and no one gets exempt from those horrors, but you seem very willing to pretend that Russia isn’t doing anything wrong and that these things are only bad when Ukraine does them to Ukrainians and that Russia is just trying to to help by killing shitloads of Ukrainians so they can’t hurt other Ukrainians???

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I’m sure you can find the strength within to scroll up

So no examples, ok that's expected :)

I know you’re just trying to waste my time.

You are either trolling or I fallen victim to talking to an LLM again.. "but you seem very willing to pretend that Russia isn’t doing anything wrong" never did that. Anyway, as you're not willing to back your words with any proofs, I won't be wasting your time anymore

[–] Ciderpunk@lemmy.world -2 points 8 months ago

Shocking that you’ve once again decided to ignore the important part and are focusing on anything but acknowledging that maybe Russia has something to do with the situation.