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this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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And possibly also cause Kessler syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
No, it couldn't. That's pure misinformation.
Kessler syndrome is only a possibility in orbits high enough that atmospheric drag is negligible. Starlink, by design, is at an altitude where the atmosphere is still thick enough to bring any debris or old satellites down to earth in a timely fashion rather than building up like Kessler syndrome requires. (To be clear, the air is still so thin that you'd need sensitive instruments to detect it at all. It's just enough to produce a tiny amount of drag, which adds up over weeks or months to lower the debris' orbit so that it meets thicker air)
There are plenty of perfectly legitimate objections you can raise to starlink without resorting to Kessler syndrome
There seem to be a significant number of people who disagree with you.
https://rntfnd.org/2023/09/29/will-musks-starlink-satellites-lead-to-kessler-syndrome-big-think-post-from-leolabs/
https://www.space.com/starlink-satellite-conjunction-increase-threatens-space-sustainability
https://interestingengineering.com/science/kessler-syndrome-spacex-starlink-orbital-chaos
https://libraetd.lib.virginia.edu/downloads/m326m255z?filename=Walker_Avery
https://www.soa.org/49f0ba/globalassets/assets/files/static-pages/research/arch/2023/arch-2023-2-kessym.pdf
It's not possible with these satellites as they're too low in orbit and can only stay up for 3-5 years before burning up in the atmosphere. It doesn't matter if you can find people to agree with you as I could easily find a dozen links from people claiming the earth is flat.
Just to be clear... you believe because the satellites are low enough that they will only last a few years, that they cannot run into each other and cause a cascading effect of debris? I mean, sure, the cascading effect (Kessler Syndrome) might only last a few years, but it still could happen, couldn't it? Or is there something special about them that means they can't actually accidentally run into each other and break apart, with the pieces hitting other satellites and breaking apart...?
I'm not sure why these satellites being in low orbit protects them from the laws of physics.
You're talking about the Kessler Effect (cascading collisions) not Kessler Syndrome (space is unusable). I never stated that they can't collide with one another just that they're not capable of trapping us on earth for any significant period of time due to their low orbit.
facepalm
Right, I understand you now. You are being pedantic about the definition of Kessler Syndrome, assuming people are using it to refer to a permanent status. Gotcha.
In short, you don't disagree, you just aren't using the same words to mean the same thing as everyone else, leading to confusion and conflict.
Kessler Syndrome, even if it "only" lasts a few years, would be devastating. That is what people are worried about, and that is what could happen, even with low earth orbits. Given big enough pieces of debris, the "any significant period of time" you refer to could certainly be significant enough to cause lasting problems.
I'm not sure why they think they know better than the multiple scientists I have given them references to.
Oh no wait, yes I do. They refuse to look at the links.
Except that my links quote scientists.
For example:
But a professor of astronautics is basically the same as a flat Earther, am I right?
Also, I literally included an academic paper.
The number of maneuvers increased as they increased the number of satellites in orbit, which shouldn't be surprising to anyone. To claim that this is going to follow an exponential curve approaching infinity is ignorant at best and disinformation at the worst because they have a hard limit on how many satellites they need. The guy you're quoting qualified that statement with "right now" right at the beginning of the quote.
In addition to this, an increased number of maneuvers has no bearing on whether these LEO satellites will cause Kessler Syndrome as you claimed in your previous comment. They're in too low of an orbit to do that.
That's quite the heel-turn from "I could easily find a dozen links from people claiming the earth is flat," but congratulations on taking a tiny bit of effort and reading the first paragraph of one of the many links I posted when I quoted it to you.
I'm sure looking at the academic paper I gave you wouldn't even be worth the time of someone with your expert knowledge.
Weird, though, that you say you could "easily find a dozen links from people claiming the earth is flat" and yet have provided no links to support your actual claim.
What heel-turn? I stated it isn't possible for these to cause Kessler Syndrome and haven't departed from that.
I did read your links when you initially replied, and they don't claim that they'll cause Kessler Syndrome. Some of them dance around the topic with scary sounding premises but none actually state it because it's impossible for something orbiting flying that low to be trapped in orbit for long just like an airplane with engines that die can't maintain altitude and continue flying for long. You don't need to be an expert in aeronautics or spaceflight to understand this because it's basic physics.
Yes I focused on that statement that you quoted because that's what you quoted in your reply as proof it's possible even though all it said was that more evasive maneuvers are happening as more of these satellites are put into orbit just like more cars will need to dodge debris in the road during rush hour than during the middle of the night when nobody is on the road.
I didn't post a list of flat earther links because neither one of us is arguing that the earth is flat. This statement was hyperbole to point out the flawed reasoning in thinking that your position is correct simply because you can find someone else stating the same thing (something those links don't actually even do if the topic is Kessler Syndrome). Yeah, they can crash into something and cause debris, but they can't be trapped up there permanently and prevent us from reaching space again because their orbit is so low.
Starlink orbits at 342 miles so assuming the entire constellation exploded into debris, they'd only be an issue for as little as a few weeks and as much as a couple of years before burning up and clearing themselves out. Kessler Syndrome requires that something be in high earth or geostationary orbit to trap us on the planet permanently.
https://aerospace.org/article/space-debris-101
No one said anything about permanently. That's been your whole issue here? Because that's not how gravity works anyway. The thing you yourself quoted says it could take years for it to reenter. So that's years of too much debris in LEO to launch anything safely.
I have no idea where you got the notion that Kessler syndrome means something like nothing can ever be launched again until the year 5 billion when the sun engulfs the Earth.
That's exactly what Kessler Syndrome is though.
This isn't about gravity it's about orbital altitude. Objects in HEO or Geostationary orbit can stay at those altitudes for hundreds to thousands of years which qualify as "permanently" for all intents and purposes.
No, that just means they can stay up there for years, not that it automatically makes it unsafe to launch into orbit. This is like claiming a 50-car pileup in Des Moines makes it unsafe to drive in Los Angeles.
[From Kessler himself](https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/white-sands/micrometeoroids-and-orbital-debris-mmod/#%3A%7E%3Atext=The+Kessler+Syndrome%2C%28900+to+1%2C000+kilometers%29.
Let me know when you actually read my links.
I already told you that I did read your links when you first posted them.
I would believe that if you had addressed anything in them other than something I quoted directly to you.
You didn't, so I don't.
Well, where are the dozen links?
Would you get off that?
Sure, as soon as you read the links I have already provided, including the academic paper, and respond to them, unlike the other person I am talking to.